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Starts and Runs Great Then Quits

 

(@jerry-berry)
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I have been wrestling with my 41 Chevy for weeks concerning stalling after running for 10 minutes or so. I'm posting this here since the 41 has a 1954 engine in it. I have replaced the fuel tank, blown all the fuel lines out and installed a new old stock AC mechanical glass bowl fuel pump. I'm now on my 3d carburetor all of them Rochester until today. I had a Carter YF carb in great condition and decided to try it. 

What happens is, it started and ran well but after 10 minutes or so, it quits as if it's running out of fuel. Now, in the work shop, I pour fuel in the carb and it starts and runs well until it burns the prime and then quits. I literally tried 3 different Rochesters and they all did the same thing. I thought maybe I had missed a blockage of some sort in the fuel lines, so blew them out again. When I removed each carb, fuel spilled from the carb end of the fuel line, leading me to believe fuel was getting to the carb. After installing the Carter, I came to the conclusion that, although fuel was getting to the carb, 4 carburetors can't be all bad with the same symptoms. I thought it must not be getting sufficient fuel pressure. I could try another fuel pump, but the glass bowl on the current pump is filled with fuel. I even took the fuel line loose at the carburetor, stuck the end in in a plastic bottle, cranked it over for 10 seconds and it pumps fuel into the bottle.

My latest conclusion is that it's not getting ENOUGH fuel for some reason. I'm thinking the fix is to install an electric fuel pump. What do all of you geniuses think? I would love to take this old car to some of the club meets. 


   
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(@anthony-williamson)
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Based on your description I would suggest the pump isnt working correctly. To save the effort of going through the pump needlessly as a temporary test connect a small container of fuel above the carb so the fuel will gravity feed and run the engine. If the stalling continue before the container is empty there is a problem in the carb/carbs if not I suspect 1 of the valves in the pump.

Tony 


   
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Tiny
 Tiny
(@tiny)
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These things can be hair pulling adventures for sure. If it was me, I'd start with Tony's suggestion of placing a lawn mower tank or similar above the carb and run the car on that. If it doesn't stall out, at least you know it's not the carburetor. It could, in that case, be a fuel delivery issue. FYI NOS pumps can fail if they've not had the diaphragm replaced with an alcohol resistant one. Depending on how it dies (does it sputter as in running out of gas or does it stop like the key was turned off) it could also be electrical, like a bad coil. Testing a coil is out of my skill set but I believe is outlined in the shop manual. Just remember to make one change at a time then test. If you make several changes then test and it fixes the problem you'll never know for sure which change fixed it. I recently had a stalling issue with my 38 that turned out to be debris in the float bowl that would periodically block the needle valve. Good luck.

7046 old site posts
Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet
1938 Master Business Coupe
1953 210 Sedan


   
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(@jerry-berry)
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@anthony-williamson Thanks, Tony. I installed a glass bowl fuel filter within 4 inches of the carb and as always the line I installed leaked like a sieve at first crank. The car did start. I worked on the leak for some time and when I next cranked it, the filter glass filled immediately. Strange, the car idled for probably ten minutes and I thought the filter install somehow solved the problem. Got in and started backing out and it quit, sounding like it does when you’re out of gas. I primed it and spit it and sputtered at first and then was running clean and within 30 seconds died again like running out of gas. When I loosened fittings on the carb, fuel leaked considerably from the loosened fuel line??? When it did stall out, priming the carb got it started.

I had a Rochester on it to start with and it ran strong, but did the same thing…stalled like running out of gas. Another Rochester carb and it didn’t change a thing. The car came with lots of parts and one of the items was a Carter YF, not quite configured for this engine, but I modified the fuel line feeds to see if the carb made any improvement. That carb had the engine running very strong but eventually did the same thing. When I changed out the carbs, I filled each carb with fuel to see what would happend…it still stalled.


   
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(@jerry-berry)
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@tiny When I first got the car to start and run, it did so but very poorly. I changed the points and condenser with Pertronix electronic items and it immediately woke this engine up. After running and driving it for probably 30-40 minutes, it quit running like running out of gas. you can see what I’ve done in my other posts. New tank blown out fuel lnes NOS fuel pump, Pertronix ignition, etc. I like the idea of a temporary fuel tank gravity fed. I’m going to try that if I can find a suitable tank it really has me stumped to the point that I can’t figure anything else to try except your idea. I will let you know how it goes. Thanks for the tips.


   
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Tiny
 Tiny
(@tiny)
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I hope you didn't throw your old distributor away. Points are solid, reliable and easily worked on. I've heard many stories about folks having issues with Pertronix. Since the issue didn't start until after the swap, it kind of makes one go hmmm.

7046 old site posts
Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet
1938 Master Business Coupe
1953 210 Sedan


   
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(@jerry-berry)
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@tiny If it were an ignition problem, it wouldn't run perfectly when it did start after pouring gas in it, in my opinion. Again, it won't start at all until I pour fuel in the carb. That seems to be a clear indication that the issue is fuel delivery related. Of course I kept all the old school points, condenser and original coil. I replaced the coil on both of my 235 six cylinder engines along with the electronic parts. I've used Pertronix in a bunch of cars and don't recall a failure, plus every use resulted in instant starts and better running engines, mostly Chevy small blocks. 

I am really frustrated with this issue. This car is such a joy to drive and I can't get it out of my garage. LOL. When I get it running, I'm going to throw a party!


   
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(@jerry-berry)
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@tiny Considering your suggestion to fuel the carb with a gravity feed temporary tank, are you suggesting that I run a fuel line hard installed to the carb? In that case wouldn't I have to remove the mechanical fuel pump or disconnect the fuel line from the tank?


   
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Tiny
 Tiny
(@tiny)
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Posted by: @jerry-berry

@tiny Considering your suggestion to fuel the carb with a gravity feed temporary tank, are you suggesting that I run a fuel line hard installed to the carb? In that case wouldn't I have to remove the mechanical fuel pump or disconnect the fuel line from the tank?

Here's the setup I used. In my case my tank was out of the car and I needed to run the car so I just connected to the fuel pump inlet using a barb fitting. Since we're bypassing the pump on your car in an effort to test whether the pump is bad you'll need to either drain the tank or disconnect and block the line from the tank then connect the line from the temporary tank to the carburetor.

Im001311

 

 

7046 old site posts
Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet
1938 Master Business Coupe
1953 210 Sedan


   
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(@jerry-berry)
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@tiny That would test whether or not there was a blockage from the tank or fuel line to the pump, but wouldn't test the fuel pump itself...right? I am certain there's no blockage from the tank to the fuel pump. I bought a new old stock fuel pump which may or may not be pumping sufficient fuel pressure, possibly, but I know it's pumping some fuel to the carb inlet since the glass fuel filter I installed filled immediately. Also, when it first started and ran after the filter install, I quickly checked and found fuel spewing from the leaks at the inlet to the fuel filter. That's a clear indication that fuel is getting to the fuel filter. I was thinking of gravity feeding a line directly to the carb using your setup to see if the carb was the problem? What do you think?


   
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Tiny
 Tiny
(@tiny)
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That should work fine. It'll take everything out of the equation but the carburetor.

7046 old site posts
Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet
1938 Master Business Coupe
1953 210 Sedan


   
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(@jerry-berry)
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I went out and primed the carb this morning and, voila...it started and idled for like 15 minutes. When I increased the engine speed, after 30 seconds, it stalled as before. I wonder if the fuel pump is putting fuel into the fuel filter and maybe into the carb and runs at idle, but it's not pumping enough pressure to run at higher speeds? I'm going to replace the fuel pump and see if that could be the problem. It almost has to be.

This post was modified 4 weeks ago by Jerry Berry

   
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(@jerry-berry)
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I took a video of the car running (before it quits) today and have been trying for a while to download it to this site, but it doesn’t work. It’s an mp4 video file or MOV and it says that format isn’t supported. Does anyone know what type is?


   
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Tiny
 Tiny
(@tiny)
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I don't believe direct uploads of videos is supported but could be wrong. That's a question for the webmaster:@p-gariepy  You will likely have to upload to a site like youtube then post a link.

7046 old site posts
Save a life, adopt a senior shelter pet
1938 Master Business Coupe
1953 210 Sedan


   
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(@tomp)
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Possible fuel pump cam lobe issue?


   
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