Hi Chev Nut,

Sorry for the inconvenience of sending you down here for an answer.

Can't really say for sure that they are still manufacturing them, but I got the call yesterday that my pistons and rings had arrived at the parts house for me to pick up.

NOTE: The "Moderator" of this department has advised me that any post not contributing directly to the thread will either be deleted or moved into "General Discussions" if it has any other redeeming value.

The Ebay picture of the 235 pistons looked like OEM pistons.Perhaps with some luck your '28 pistons will be close to he originals (for '28) which were very simular to the 235 pistons in appearence.

Badger is a very well known piston company for replacement pistons. I tried to check for a 28 Chev 4 part # on the Internet but it appears only authorized distributors can get into its reference catalogs - for part # and cost info.

Do you have all the catalog data on these 28 replacement pistons and what oversizes & CR [ring type] are available?

These Badger pistons for the Chev 4 are certainly a nice surprised to me since I thought only Egge and JAHNS were still made.
Thank, KenK

Hi ken,

Unfortunately some information must remain as "Trade Secrets". Appears to work for Bill Gates and he has almost as much money as I do. (Or is it the other way around?)

Accept the fact that Badger has pistons for the Chevrolet 4-cylinder cars.

RAY, DOES BADGER MAKE THE PISTONS, OR DO THEY JUST SELL THEM AND IS THERE A CATALOG YOU CAN GET??

Badger has been in business for years and are the manufacturer of the pistons. They are distributed by Dynagear(R), Downers Grove, IL. Your local parts house should have their catalog and can assist in ordering.

Unless you are an authorized distributor I would doubt that you could get a catalog other than an outdated one from your parts supplier.

HI CHEVGENE, THAT WOULD BE GREAT IF RAY GIVES US THE NUMBER OF THE PISTONS HES PUTTING IN HIS ENGINE. IM SURE THEIR ARE OTHERS WHO MAY NEED THE SAME ONES. AND ALSO YOU COULD BUILD A LIST OF THE DIFFERENT NUMBERED PISTONS AS TO SIZE. GOOD IDEA CHEVGENE. THANKS

Now I don't want to steal any thunder from Antique Mechanic but you guys only need the bore, skirt length, piston pin location from top of piston and size to get replacement pistons. There are several pistons for non-Chevys that can be used in the six cylinders. Depending on application the pistons may be domed or flat top. I imagine 4 banger pistons are also available. Right Ray?

That's what I have been trying to tell them. Most shops charge even more for the research than machining rates. If you have a serious need for the information, you can get it.

It doesn't have to be by brand name 'Badger'. Any brand will do.

Donald, just remember when you measure don't use one of the pistons that are collapsed or that have been chewed on by a Junkyard Dog! I t would be so much better if you could just go to the Chevrolet house and order by VIN. Maybe someone ?? will take time from wheeling and dealing to make a comprehensive and meaningful chart for you poor old geezers that don't know which piston fits what.

HI RAY, IN YOUR YEARS IN ENGINE REBUILDING AND FOOLING AROUND WITH ANTIQUE CARS, HAVE YOU USED DIFFERENT MANUFACTURERS OF PISTONS OR DO HAVE YOU STUCK WITH ONE KIND? ARE BADGER PISTONS, FROM WHAT YOU HAVE READ AND HEARD, SUPPOSED TO BE BETTER THAN SOME OTHER BRANDS OF PISTONS. THANKS

Don, I have used Badger pistons in at last 10 small blocks that I built over the past few years. They are a good cast normal service piston, and they all seem to be balanced with each other real close. I don't think I would feel to comfortable reving them up to 8 grand, but then I there are'nt any cast pistons that I would feel good with at 8 grand. For what you guys are using them for they should be fine. Low compression and low rev's, what could go wrong?
John 348/340HP

THANKS FOR THE REPLY JOHN. IM HOPEING MY EGGE PISTONS HOLD UP FOR AWHILE????

Low rev's and low compression, not much to hold up to. I never heard anything bad about EGGE, good luck with the project.
John

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, IF THE MAINS ARE A LITTLE LOOSE FITTING, WILL YOU GET ENGINE KNOCK FROM THEM OR DO YOU ONLY GET ENGINE KNOCK FROM THE RODS BEING TO LOOSE????? OR THE PISTONS FITTING TOO LOOSE????

Don,
Any part of the engine will make a noise if tolerances are greater than recommended. Rods and mains can make a similar noise. Shorting the plug on a cylinder, listening with a stethascope (screwdriver), noting if worse on acceleration, under load or at low speed vs higher speed, etc. is the method to tell what the problem is before dissassembly. The more experience the better a person can separate the causes of the noises.

School is about to convene for another session. The engine has been extracted from the car and completely disassembled.

A question was asked earlier in a private message as to how to remove the engine from the car. My solution was to remove the hood, radiator as a unit and the cross bar (headlight bar). Inside I removed the floorboards. Driveline was broken at the u-joint. Transmission cover was removed and the parking brake handle. Before the operation was started I had already removed the head and the pan. To prevent damage to the oil pump it was removed. It would not have been necessary, but I removed all the ‘black items’ (generator, starter, ect). At this point it was very easy to remove the engine, bell housing, and transmission as a unit.

With the assembled unit removed from the car it was then very easy to break it up into the major components. Everything was set aside except for the engine. It was to be disassembled next.

During this operation of removing the engine, and the subsequent disassembly, it was very apparent that the shop/individual that built the engine and did the original assembly were very competent. If it were not for the failure of the #3 piston the engine would have performed for many more years. However, it is evident it was eventually doomed to failure. Although the mains are still serviceable, problems were present. When we rebuilt Chevrolet engines in the late 40’s and early 50’s it was possible to identify the brand of engine oil used by the owner based on the residue in the engine. If the owner had used PxxxxiL the pan would be an inch deep in sludge. That describes this engine. When the main bearing shells were carefully taken from the engine the oil feed holes were already blocked by massive amounts of sludge. It is obvious that the previous owner did not perform any maintenance on this engine. Other signs of good work by the engine builder were the attention to detail such as aircraft wiring the screws on the oil pump. When removing the engine from the car it was noted that the engine mounting bolts were assembled with the proper bolts, nuts, and cotter keys, but the nuts were still loose (?).

The engine has been completely stripped and is ready for the ‘hot tank’. Was discouraged that no shims are left in any of the rods. This will take more examination and measurements before a decision can be made as to what action to take. On the other hand, all mains had shims. The crank does not appear to have any major damage, although it has not been ‘tanked’ and examined.

The next step is to clean everything and examine it very closely. I already know that the cylinders will be punched out approximately .060. As they are now at .020 and whatever wear and taper that exists, the boring will not be extensive. As noted before, each piston will be fitted to it’s own hole with the clearance as prescribed by the piston manufacturer.

Your questions and comments are welcomed. Just for the fun of it, and to keep interest by more members, it would be appreciated if they were pertinent.

So far you have not mentioned the head.Are you planning to have the head magnufluxed for cracks or didn't the 4's have the cracking problem so common in the 6's????I used to feel the same about P-oil but have converted to it in the last 15 years and always found engines to be clean.This could have been caused by a coolant leak into the crankcase.(the sludge).Glad to be back in school.

I am in agrement with Chev nut on the engine oil, I don't think it is so much a matter of oil brand as much of grade of oil and how often itis changed to eliminate contamination that occurs, sometimes without the owners knowledge, such as a coolant leak, poor air cleaning, dusty conditions or a fuel contamination from a faulty carb needle valve or extra rich mixture from a bad choke or bad use of a good choke , also from a poorly operating heat rizer.

I think in the past 15 years P.n....l has changed their base. I personally had sludge problems with three engines 20-30 years ago when that was the only oil used. There was no evidence of another contributing factor. I switched to another brand of oil and have not seen the sludging problems again. Part of that is the change in additive packages that occured about that time to SF specs.

I am glad that school will soon be back in session. I am ready to take my seat as soon as the bell rings. Reminds me of Pavloff's dogs.

I am presently repairing (vs a rebuild) a '31 six cylinder to be used as a carburetor test engine. It was one that I had against the wall. It has 0.020 oversize aluminum pistons of unknown manufacture. I have not checked the bottom end yet only removed the head (1930 casting date) (several valves stuck). It had a bocue of carbon on the intake valve stems and about 1/16" on the tops of the pistons, head, valves, etc. Being a low temp engine it is easy to remove.

I should know today or tomorrow about cracks in the head as it is in the shop to get tanked and magnifluxed. If ok then likely we will have to replace several exhaust seats as they are badly rust pitted. Intakes look relatively good. Since I don't know the history can only suspect long term storage in high humidity area like Texas Gulf Coast.

If interested I will keep updated in separate topic.

I started to useing a good high detergent oil back when we had hydralic lifters in the PG engines 52 in particular, and my dad had one of one of those new fangled Chrysler V/8s with the hydralic lifters and the engine oiled torque converters. their lifters were bad to clatter and when one of them was torn down and had sludge everywhere, we started useing Phillips HDS 20 wt. like we used in the screaming jimmy diesels on the road trucks and loaders and everything else with a diesel engine. It worked then. we always used some Pennsilvania crude based oil and a high detergent one,( Amalie, Penns oil, Quaker State), that stopped the lifter and sludge problems that we had experianced with Gulfpride and Havoline. and Unique. now whether it was the best I have no idea, but after all Arnold Palmer used it in his old tractor!

OOPs! Ray , you may need to have the moderator to delete this if it is out of line or offensive to anyone......

CHEV NUT:
I am saving the head for later. There are some problems and I have a unique solution to share with you. There is also some exciting information about the head.

MR MACK:
Everything that you said has merit. It’s just that years ago it was a standing discussion among the mechanics that the extremely contaminated engines on disassembly had been using P####O##. This was confirmed several times by asking the owner what brand oil he had been using.

CHEVY CHIP:
It was not too far from your location that I was doing the ‘wrench’ work on the old Chevy’s. Must have just been the local oil that caused the problem. Good to see you back in school. School will remain in session as long as the students are attentive or the subject matter doesn't become boring. (Boring, that sounds like a machine shop operation).

Would be more than welcome to be kept posted on your project.

MR MACK:
You’re right; perhaps we have lubed this one sufficiently, and can take it down off the lift.

After a good nights rest, the block was examined again this morning in natural light. In viewing the exhaust side of the block the discoloration of the area surrounding the #3 and #4 piston was very obvious. Oil under the pushrod cover was ’burned’. The engine paint on the backside of #4 was also burned. This engine had obviously been very hot in that area either as a result of the bad piston or just the reverse, the piston had been damaged by the hot spot. The block is in the hot tank as we speak and will be closely examined and magnafluxed when it comes out. To insure the maximum cleaning action all ’freeze’ plugs were removed. Particular attention will be placed on flushing and probing the water passages.

For future reference here are the markings on the block:
348532-4, directly underneath this number is a Bow tie, and under that is K 16 7 (Nov 16 1927) This date is consistent with the assembly date of the car. The engine number stamped on the boss is: 38 64000. Keep this number in mind when we get to the head. Inside the engine and under #1 and #2 cylinders is stamped “B7” and under #3 and #4 is stamped “A11”.
(KenK, please jump in here and comment as you see fit on all these numbers and markings).

Also today, time was spent on the fitting of pistons to the rods. What appeared as a simple machining process sent me to 5 machine shops before I could get one to tackle the project. The work is to be completed on Friday. When I pick them up that will be the main emphasis of our next class. Till then----recess.

Ray,
The oil sludging problems with P.........l was first noticed when I was still in the frozen north and continued when I got to Gods Country. Just happens that more of the engines were made by a company with four letter name beginning with an F. Don't believe that it had anything to do with it. Also had a couple of Chevys with sludging.

It still happens. My son is in service department of local Lexus dealer. The have rebuilt or replaced engines with less than 20k miles. Owner did not change oil as recommended (probably only the initial change that is part of warranty). There were grooves in the sludge in the pan where the rods and counter weights rotated.

Reason to bring this up is that all mineral oil (refined from crude) will form sludge. It is a function of temperature, water, air. Essentially the oil breaks down and recombines into larger molecules, more like polymers (plastic to non-chemists). Additives are added to modern oils to retard sludge formation but only so much can be added. When it is gone then the sludge formating process begins in earnest. With modern oil sump (pan) temperatures it doesn't take too long before you have something resembling grease instead of oil.

Yes we all know people who never changed oil only added. I have a good friend that put 200k+ miles on a Chevy 305 and could not remember the last time he changed the oil (claims over 200k). The engine was rebuilt with the original crank and was not bored (they said it didn't need it). Only put rings, bearings, chain, gears in it. Find it hard to believe but it still runs around here. My only explaination is that it is a cool crankcase engine.

Don't ever think about doing that with one of the modern high hp small displacement engines. They run much too hot for that.

Poor dumb guy, when you think about it, maybe he could have gotten 300K out of the engine if he would have maintained it correctly, no reason why not, I had a self propelled lawn mower I just plain hated, it had rear wheel drive. I decided to just let it wear out and evaporate, so I didn't change the oil except every two years. it was 8 years old and started every time on about the 5th pull, untill MrsMack gave it the final rites after she hit a solid steel trailer jack wheel and bent the shaft so badly that it cut a groove in the shroud. otherwise it would have outlasted us both. What was the point of these ramblings? sometimes you don't know anything!

Ray, glad to see school back in session again, I brung my crayons and everything this time. In the process of putting to gather a 231 V6 motor myself and need a break now and then. Have used Castor oil products in most every car that I have ever owned and have had next to no problems with it's performance to date. I have to admit that I most likely change oil more often than is really necessary but it works for me and keeps the oil companys in business. Will look fwd to more up dates in future classes.

Kirk