Even in a fancy ad it looks like blackwalls were the way to go in '32 (even this Deluxe (?) model).

Wonder how many restored ones have blackwalls today? :rolleyes:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2203500950&category=14053#ebayphotohosting

Maybe I can save some $$$.

You'll also notice the car does not have chrome doors on the hood. I have a photo of a 1931 dealer show room and the roadster and cabriolet have double white side walls. White on the inside and outside. They were still available in the late 60's and early 70's. I don't know of a source for double whites today.

Double whitewall tires are still being made today and Coker Tire and Universal Tire has them in stock. Until about 1938 or 1939 whitewall tires were double whitewalls, not single, and whitewall tires were an aftermarket accessory installed by the dealer if requested by the new car owner.

Also, note the placement of the tail light assembly, the configeration of the sidemount "T" handle and the convertible top laying on the rear quarter.

I called Coker and they said that they don't have any 19" double side walls for my '31. That's what's on there now but they are too old to drive on safely.

Try Universal Tire Company. I ordered my double whitewall tires from them for my 1930 Chevy sport coupe, and it uses the same tire size as 1931.

Hello everyone,

There is also another interesting feature to this picture. Looks like it is a right hand drive model with no cowl lights! Since the company name is "Atlantic Union Oil Co, LTD. Could this be from the UK?

When was the last time anyone say a 1932 Standard roadster anywhere? Now that might cause a stir at a meet!!

The ad is from Australia.......that's why the '32 roadster is right-hand drive.

Australia and the company is "Atlantic", guess they thought the Atlantic covered more then than today.

I need something cleared up for me that is so simple I feel a little foolish asking; the VCCA would like the cars to be "as delivered to the dealer" or "as delivered to buyer"? Or as "could have been delivered to a buyer"?

If the accessory is "dealer installed" it has to be for that model and that model year, right? Or did dealers install older accessories or ones that were meant for the next years' car?

All accessories were dealer installed. The dealer could install either genuine Chevrolet accessories or aftermarket accessories, depending upon the buyer's choice. However, for judging, as I understand it, only the correct genuine Chevrolet accessories authorized for that particular model year are acceptable. Aftermarket accessories are not and points should be deducted.

I think (IMHO)that the defintion of an original 1000 point car (as originally sold)(or as delivered to the dealer)? or (as it possibly could have been delivered to the first owner)? and if the dealer installed an aftermarket accessory it would be allowed, many cars that have several accessories added 75 years after it's model year are allowed now, but only if it is "Chevrolet" This problem should be hammered out by the judging committee, printed in bold type in the Judging manual, and then the judging should follow along those boundries.

On page 4 of the Judging Manual it states "The owner,thru the use of Genuine Chevrolet literature and documents, must validate the accessory appointments.Owners are encouraged to have the literature available at meets along with the mandatory owners manual.Its the owners responsibility to provide this documentation to validate authentic accessories if a question exists.Accessory manuals and literature will aid in this process".Also in the interior judging section it lists ""check for GM issue" pertaining to radios and heaters.

This brings up another question..Many 1949-54 Chevrolets have Pontiac outside visors installed (and some Oldsmobile).These are of GM issue but not shown in Chevtolet literature-should points be deducted for incorrect visors??There are other accessories that fall into this catagory-such as fog lights etc.

Good point, MrMack, no pun intended. This has been a sore point (pun intended) for me and other VCCA members. In the real world dealers sold all kinds of parts and accessories, some were approved by Chevrolet Motor Co. and some were not.

Another question, Would a copy or the original invoice from a Chevrolet dealer showing the accessorys included with the delivery of a new car be a valid document? like for Michelin tires exchanged for Goodyear tires or a Reese load leveling hitch receiver on a 1970 Caprice wagon or a 1976 big 10 Camper Special 4x4 surb.?

I think a judge would soon tire of all of these "What if?" questions and decide NOT to work as a VCCA judge. Maybe that is a underlying problem with our Judging program?, and maybe not?

So...let me see if I understand;

---any accessory that is Chevrolet and available in the production year of a car is "ok" even if the accessory was never on the car;

---any accessory that is GM and available in the production year of a car and installed by the dealer is "ok";

---any accessory available in the production year of a car and can be "proved" is "considered" and may or may not be approved by the judges;

I have purchased new cars after the production year ended and had the dealer install accessories available for the newer year car, would that be "ok"? What if I had older accessories installed by the dealer when I buy the car?

Looks like the way to a 1,000 point car would be to have one that is "stripped down", w/o any accessories. Fewer parts = the fewer things to go wrong.

Gator, I think you hit on it towards the end of your post. The less you mess with the accessories the better off you are for judging. Once the car receives whatever awards you are content with, then install whatever you want. It's your car!
I have seen Standard Roadsters in person at a few shows years ago. That's probably how most roadsters were bought. They were the cheapest cars offered by Chevy. Most buyers would want to keep the deal inexpensive.
Just this Summer I saw a 32 Deluxe Sedan with a realy cool defroster mounted on the inside near the sun visor. I asked the owner about it and he said it was an accessory for 32. Well I don't know for sure, but it was cool and he was done with showing at major shows. What's the differance? I don't care, it's his car...

I will comment as a VCCA member only. I am a member of the Judging Committee and the National Board but am not commenting as a representative of either group only as a VCCA member.

Let's get a bit practical and not try to take the judging issue to its extremes.

First the judging takes place on a field or parking lot normally under a baking sun. There are several other vehicles that a team of judges must evaluate. With a suggested 10-15 minutes for each vehicle the process typically takes 2-3 hours for each team. Then tabulation, correction of errors and selection of the major award winners would take more time typically 2-3 more hours. By that time it is 3-4 PM. If the judging of each individual vehicle were to take twice as much time (because of time to research documents as an example) several likely differences would occur. 1. The judging would be more accurate. 2. The owner would likely be more satisfied. 3. Fewer people would volunteer to judge. 4. The resultant time would more than double! 5. It would quickly destroy the judging process, as we know it.

Second
If accessories other than those approved by Chevrolet are acceptable then more confusion and difficulty in documentation will be introduced into the process. If GM accessories that are intended for other models are accepted then at least in some (if not most) cases some modifications would be required. It would also expand the documentation and training requirements. If non-GM accessories were accepted then "Katie bar the door." We would open the "acceptable" to anything that an owner cared to claim was available to a dealer at the time the vehicle was sold. If that was one, two, three, ten, twenty, thirty, sixty or ? years later
then we could accept power steering, air conditioning on vehicles for which it was not originally available. An owner could claim that his high performance carburation, exhaust, tires, suspension, trick paint job, roll bar, safety harness, etc. was available to the dealer since it was on the market. It is agreed that the above scenarios is bordering on the absurd but in the over 30 years in the VCCA I have witnessed owners that have made claims or registered complaints nearly as ridiculous. How many other pieces of literature would be required to document the additional accessories? How would we train the judges? Do we really want to go there?

I have discussed with several people a special judging standard that would attempt to critically evaluate a few vehicles per year. It would be strictly by the numbers with several hours spent on each vehicle. It is envisioned to be performed by "experts" for the year and model and hopefully it would represent the pinnacle of Chevrolet restoration and preservation. Some have given verbal support but not real effort. Is it something worth working toward?

Well Chipper, maybe we ought to just let well enough alone, after all judging at a VCCA Show is "just for fun". The National Club doesn't have to put out a lot of cash and the top cars only receive a small award for the ones judged better than some mythical pie in the sky dreamed up value . It isn't like it is for live or die, blood or money!
Right?


Maybe this could be considered what some call "Stirring the pot"???

Holy Cow Chipper Dipper! You have worn me out just reading about your judging scenario. If you need a break, come to the NW Meets for rest and relaxation. Since only 19 to 21 cars are judged the process only takes an hour or so. And, in talking to some of the judges they actually find it refreshing!

And, I totally agree with you about the aftermarket accessories. The genuine Chevrolet accessories for each particular year are hard enough to keep track of during the judging process, and things don't need to be more complicated by trying to figure out thousands of additional aftermarket accessories that fit on several different brands of cars besides Chevrolets!

I was justing wondering about the direction of the club in terms of keeping the cars "like they were".

Gator,
You just might aughta keep the bumpers on. That is unless you find the screws that fit in the holes. Yes there were 9/16x12 round head screws that were put into the holes in the end of the frame if bumpers were not ordered from the factory. (And even if ordered the bumpers were not installed to save space in the rail cars. Dealers actually installed the bumpers. I assume that when ordered with bumpers the screws might have been left off. And further the dealer mechanics threw the unneeded screws in a box or trash.) Ever seen any of them? The only place I have seen them is in the back of 1/2 ton trucks that did not have bumpers. All other '31 or '32 vehicles that I have seen and consider original have had bumpers installed.

Since bumpers were accessories, there are some film strips that show 1932 Chevys without bumpers. But, like the Chipper Dipper, every original '31 and '32 that I have seen had bumpers.

I suppose it might be settled from a real old-timer who could recall it first hand, but perhaps the definition of a bumper as technically a "dealer accessory" in 1932 was pretty much in name instead of reality? That is, just like in recent times you get charged for a radio or a passenger side mirror as a "dealer accessory", the bumpers were more or less necessary items that were already installed by the time the car was out on the lot?

But could you get the car cheaper then w/o bumpers?

Also I have heard that there wasn't a tire on the spare rim unless you got it as an accessory item, is this true?

Gator

Yup, you could get it cheaper.

For the years of this forum you are correct. Only a spare rim or wheel (in the case of wire wheel) was supplied. The tire and tube was supplied by the dealer or tire supplier. I don't know for sure if the rim or tire had the valve stem attached. I could make a case for either option but feel that likely a stem was not supplied.

Yes, since bumpers were an accessory they were sold at extra cost.

What I was throwing out was the possibility of two scenarios -

1) that, true, the bumpers were charged as an accessory, but they were already on the car, and it would have taken a lot of focused haggling by the buyer to have them removed (like in modern times, if you don't want a passenger side mirror because it's charged as an "accessory", it would take a lot of effort and haggling to get the dealer to physically drive the car into the shop and take the mirror off), or

2) by 1931~32 bumpers on cars were accepted as a given necessity for safety, so when buyers settled on their car it was a done deal to pay the extra cost for bumpers, and it would be a very rare spendthrift who would have been insistent with the salesman on not getting them (in other words, it wasn't at all as if the buyer would browse through the brochure and say to the salesman, "Oh well, I guess I'll get those nice accessory bumpers, too".)

"...Only a spare rim or wheel (in the case of wire wheel) was supplied..."

Chip, does this mean that the spare rim was loose with the car or attached to the back with the bracket in '29-'32?


Ed, since a lot of people during the depression didn't have a lot of extra money and also the tradition of re-using was more alive then, the taking of a bumper off of a "junked" car could save some money. I still remember all of the cars and trucks and farm equipment from the 30's' parked' by the pond on my grandfather's farm.

Since I was not present when the cars were assembled or shipped I can not be sure if they were put into the racks at the factory or by the dealer. I expect that they were put into the cars separately and the dealers put them on. We do have instructions for dealers to install the hubcaps that were packed inside the vehicles.

In answer to Eddie's question, the cars were shipped without bumpers and they were installed by the dealer at extra cost to the consumer. For this reason you would see split bumpers (instead of a solid rear bumper) on the back of a car that had sidemounts, double face bar 1931 bumpers on a 1932 and so forth.

But was the bracket for the spare attached to the rear of the car at the factory or did the dealer attach it at some point?

Was the bare rim mounted on the bracket on the back of the car or thrown into the car?

Wouldn't the bracket and rim already mounted on the rear make the car take up more room when shipped by the company?

I suppose the truth, like many things in life, resides in varying degrees across all the theories we've thrown out here. I see what Skipper is saying, because I took off the solid rear bumper on my '32 with the rear spare and put on the correct split bumpers.

Maybe just to muddy up the waters a bit more , perhaps at the end of the model year a salesman might pitch a "special deal" on a certain bumper type to help move the inventory.

Well, all in all, it's a fun conversation. It can't help out the original (?) topic about where to put the limit for judging, though.

Since this thread seams not to be going anywhere in particular, I'll throw in another "bumper" issue. From what I have seen, original 32 bumpers have a bow tie on the back side about every 16". I have send some with GM and not the bow tie. No one seems to know where they originated. Anyone know they originated?

Roadster

maybe....Bumper Boyz?

Genuine bumpers for the 1933 model year were also marked on the back with the Bowtie every 16 inches or so. Not real sure about the ones marked GM.

I have a Chevrolet Field Rep Check List that the Rep would make out at each dealer visit:

20. No. of cars on show room floor equipped with Chevrolet Bumber?
21. No. of cars on show room floor equipped with other makes of Bumbers?
27. Chevrolet Bumbers on hand?
28. Was Bumper order obtained?
29. % of Cheevrolet Bumpers sold?
KenK

This is a great discussion, a lot of "facts" and ideas have come out. Since the title is about 'Fashion' we can cover almost anything. :rolleyes:

The last post from KenK seems to say that Chevy dealers installed non-Chevy (GM) accessory bumpers on cars as a matter of normal business. Is that the way you guys "read it"?

Now, does that make a non-Chevy accessory that is original, put on the car by Chevy dealer, "ok"?

Are all of the bumpers that don't have a bowtie aftermarket non-Chevy bumpers?

We will need to issue all of the judges a mirror and maybe a "shop sled".

To makes a bumper or any other accessory correct for VCCA judging The item must have been available and sold to the dealer BY CHEVROLET.If a question arises in judging you must supply documentation from Chevrolet that it was a GM item.------Just the fact the dealer installed it means nothing.

When I worked in a Chevrolet Dealership -we installed Wix oil and Inner Liner oil filters, Motorola radios, and Fulton sun visors.Some of these items were installed because there was more profit in them for the dealer or they were thought to be better than the GM stuff.These cars would have lost "points" in judging when new.Also the dealer did not need to install the accessory.The accessorys were sometimes sold "over the counter" and the owner installed them him self.---Just remember it must be a GENUINE CHEVROLET ACCESSORY as listed in various Chevrolet literature.

In the later years-early '30's-bumpers were not included in the advertised price.This was done to make the $$$ sound lower and more competetive VS other makes.After 1930 or so I doubt if any cars left the dealership without bumpers.

Chev Nut is absolutely correct! If it is not an authorized genuine Chevrolet accessory for that model year, then it is not a correct accessory and points should be deducted. Also, some early 1930's Chevrolets did leave the dealership without bumpers because the customer did not want to pay the extra money. It was very, very rare, but it did happen on occasion. Also, as I remember, the late Doug Bell, (a well-known Chevrolet historian) mentioned in one of his books that in 1933 bumpers became standard equipment. However, the 1933 and 1934 parts books still listed bumpers for those years as accessories.

On the 1932 Chevrolet bumpers with the bow tie, check out the ends of the bumper face bar where it attaches to the bumper bracket eye. The 1932 bumper face bars with the bow ties on the back had "barrel ends" (ends that bowed out on the side), and those bumpers that did not have a bow tie had straight ends....ends that didn't bow out. And, some '32 Chevrolets came from the dealer with one of each type installed as well. Obviously they were not concerned about judging in those days so anything "went" as far as genuine accessories or aftermarket accessories were concerned.

So JunkYardDog, if you were a judge and the car didn't have the Chevy bumper would you deduct points?

Since there were several different manufacturers of bumpers........and they were authorized genuine Chevrolet accessories, I wouldn't deduct points. If the car had a aftermarket type of bumper, then points should be deducted.

I wasn't aware of other authorized makers. Makes sense for GM. Good to know.

How do we know which ones were approved by GM? Did they ID them in some way on the product?

JunkYardDog,
I don't want to split hairs, but isn't "aftermarket" also applied to reproduction stuff?
If that's the case, then only NOS should be used on our cars.
If it comes down to that, then I don't want to play anymore.
I read all the post here, and someday it's going to come down to just that. I believe the Corvette people are close to that now.

Nope! "Aftermarket" and "Reproduction" are two different terms. A simple explanation is that an "Aftermarket" part is a part of the period that is made as a replacement for an OEM part (Original Equipment Manufacture). "Reproduction" means parts that are made today, to copy the original OEM part of the period (well.....they are supposed to be made like the original part, but that is another story).

To me, Aftermarket is a part that was not available from , or authorized by, the manufactor of the vehicle any time from the time the vehicle was built to now.
A reproduction is ,to me, a newly manufactored, replacement original part or accessory no longer made by the original manufactorer ie., Chevrolet Div. of GM but is licensed by Gm to be made and labeled with the Chevrolet name and or logo.

any comments?

I think that "reproduction" is a way over abused term. To me, "reproduction" means any part that is put back into production by the original manufacturer using the same stamping dies that the parts were made with originally. And, new parts made today with new stamping dies, new molds and etc., by a person or company that is licensed by GM, should be called "replicas".

JunkYardDog, to me a replica is something that looks like an old part but is not an exact copy or isn't made from the same materials, like a "Replica" of a M1911 Colt Automatic pistol that is a non fireing model, or the fibreglass bodyed replica Model A Fourd, that had an automatic transmission and a Pinto engine, Or a fibre glass 1932 cowl.
Do you agree or not?

I rest my case! How many "reproduction" (or in this case replica) parts have you bought that either didn't fit or didn't look exactly the same as the original part? And, the parts that are made in Taiwan are a very good example of this. Therefore, parts that are put back into "production" by the OEM, using the same molds or dies, would be the same as the first run of parts, unlike the "replica" parts in many cases that we buy today.

Looks like we need an official VCCA dictionary.

JunkYardDog,..... a bunch that don't fit, I look for "A new Reproduction", Made anywhere but the US of A, then grit my teeth!
...But I also give thanks to those that do a good job of reproduceing parts that fit and are so very expensive to find as NOS. They make preserveing and restoreing our old Chevrolets possible.


and Gator....
What is wrong with a Webster?

and talk about a thread getting plumb off the original topic.

Since this thread has drifted off the original topic it will be ignored!
after a while.

"Special Use Dictionary", we do have some unique terms and usage.

For example if you drive or chop or channel or dismantle or even buy a Nomad (Webster defination) you could get into hate crime trouble. I don't think any of the car names and nick names of parts, etc., would be in there.

So are the new "reproduction bumpers" offered today made with Chevy (GM) original stamps and dies? Do they have the Bow Tie on the inside? Then they would have to be licensed by Chevy, and called reproduction parts. If not, then they are replicas...
(or are they excused 'cause they were never on the car when the dealer took delivery?)
...like the way I got back on the thread...
:p

Huh? What thread? ha ha!

I believe that the repro bumpers do not have the Chevrolet bow ties on the inside of the face bars and the barrel ends are straight instead of bowed.

Some clubs/people want the original screews and washers, etc. used under the dash.

I (limited budget) try to get the car as original as I can, but I can't afford to make it "perfect" (whatever that means) to the day it rolled off the lot in '32. In the future someone (son, grandson, etc.) could make the car "more original". It's like I start the car on the path and don't do anything that will destory originality.

Its' like the doctor's oath "I will do no harm...".

Remember now the 'string' is about fashion, so almost anything goes.

"Its' like the doctor's oath "I will do no harm..."

Gator......do you know what the fourth largest killer is in the United States behind heart attacks, cancer and strokes? Doctors!! Yep, it's a fact, and over 600,000 people were either directly or indirectly killed by doctors last year. It was on the news a few weeks ago. At any rate, I wouldn't let a doctor work on your car if I were you! ha ha!

JunkYardDog...the oath is great, now the problem is making the people who take the oath live up to the oath. OK?

And I've got a doctor's appointment at 4:00 today, thanks for the scary data to think about while reading old mags....maybe I should just go to my mechanic instead?? He wears a glove on his hand also... ouch!!

Always glad to help you out! If you go to your mechanic instead it would probably be a toss up as to who would do you the most good! ha ha!

Yeah guys, add my Dad to that list. JunkYardDog you are right. Every time he went to the doctor's office he came back totally shot. They advised him not to do this and that until he wound up sitting on the couch until he died. He passed two years ago and we are still getting the bills!
Hey Gator, hope you didn't get the same treatment at your visit. Don't listen to them. Life is too short. Enjoy and NEVER give in!

Sorry to hear about your dad's passing. I have been through it too so I know where you are coming from. So far, six friends of mine have died in the past two years because of doctors, and it almost happened to this old dog twice too, and I can tell you some stories about doctors that you wouldn't believe. Anymore, it's almost impossible to find a really good and dedicated doctor that isn't out after your money. I know.......I've been looking for the past three years. The same can probably be said of some mechanics too.

However, I have finally found a great doctor.......the kind that everyone wants and he isn't out after the big bucks either. Problem is....he's a veterinarian. Hey, wait a minute...........that works for me!!! Bow Wow!!

JunkYardDog, sorry to hear about your friends, as well. Any time I want to talk to the greatest mechanic in the world, I just go down to the garage and he'll be there alright.
Hey, my dog's Vet has got to be one of the most straight foward, plane talking guys I know. How come all the human Doc's can't be like that?
Bye the way...Is it fasionable to say HAPPY THANKSGIVING?
Well have the biggest, overstuffed Turkey you can eat! But save the giblets for the dog!

"How come all the human Doc's can't be like that?" It's because of.... M.O.N.E.Y.!

Ya, save the giblets for the dog! Amen to that! Yum, yum. There will be six of us for Thanskgiving dinner and Mrs. JunkYardDog bought three turkeys! Hum........I don't know what's going on there but it looks like the old mutt ain't a gonna go hungry on Thanksgiving.

Happy Thanskgiving to one and all from the old dog! Bow Wow Wow and Wow!

JunkYardDog maybe the turkeys were on sale ($2 each) or (3 for $10)

Three Turkeys! Looks like the Mrs. didn't tell ya about the other 20 people comming over...
Better get one of those 32's out of the barn to make room for the BIG table...

Mrs. JunkYardDog got the three turkeys for 16 cents a pound, so she bought our Thanksgiving Turkey, our Christmas Turkey and our New Year's Turkey all at once. Yum, yum.......the old dog is going to have a feast!

You dogs had better stay away from the cooked bones.

Thanks,

The trumpet horn used on the 1932 cabriolet was the same as the trumpet horn used on the rest of the 1932 passenger cars. There are several different kinds.......seamed and unseamed; wire mesh that is convex and wire mesh that is concave; wire mesh that is plated and wire mesh that is painted black.

Don't know about the F--D thing since I have never owned one!

JunkYardDog, Are all of the 'kinds' you named "OK" for my car?

Yep!

Cool deal,

Six!

Cute, real cute.

When

Gator,
With all those horns and driving lights are you going to change the body type to HOG!