Old blue has a Dyer-type starter with attached starter solenoid. This was put on by a previous owner, probably when they converted her to a 12 volt system. In trying to start her I noticed smoke emanating from the starter. I believe the starter to be a Dyer-type based on reading an old Motors Manual. The only number I have found on the starter motor is "440", which may (???)correspond to an 1949 model.
Is the starter shot? Can it be rebuilt? Is this likely an armature problem? Could it be the brushes? Any ideas otherwise?
Thanks, 37Blue

You don't indicate what car you are working on, however I assume it is a 1937 and was originally a 6-volt system. Your problem is likely the overload produced by the use of 12-volts.

In any case, the starter can be repaired or switched out with another starter.

Ray:
Old Blue is a '37, but she was converted to a 12 volt system by one of the previous owners. I recently changed battery cables. The replacement cables were also 4 gauge wire.
Would the repair likely require a new armature, new brushes, both of these plus other replacement parts?
Thanks, 37 Blue

Ray:
It's a '37 1/2 ton truck, but one of the previous owners switched it to a 12 volt system and I'm guessing then too changed the starter to the Dyers-type starter. The starter is not original and appears to have been rebuilt before. I still have much to learn about working on Old Blue so I pretty much rely on old manuals and the guys in Chat to walk me thru the various repairs etc.
Where do I start with a repair? Do I assume that the armature and brushes need replacing? Are there other parts likely needed too, given the overheating problem.
I recently replaced the battery cables with the same guage wire (4 guage). Could the coil be bad and be the reason the problem occured?
Thanks, 37Blue

37blue
If your truck has been converted to 12v are you sure the starter is 12v and not still 6v. If it is still 6v and you crank for any length of time the starter will burn out. Short cranking generally wont hurt it. I have converted a couple of 6 v to 12v without changing the starter and had no problems.
Tony

Tony:
I don't know if the previous owner(s) converted the starter or not. The existing starter may be as recent as a 1949(?) maybe a few years newer. It does not have a Delco-Remy identification plate or any marking other than the number 440. This number is not listed in my copy of the parts book, which covers 1929-1950. The attached solenoid lacks any marking or numbers. I am guessing the whole unit is an aftermarket brand.
The cranking time used when the problem developed was the same as all previous successful startups.
Thanks,37Blue

37Blue I would take the starter off and take it to a local
alternator Starter shop and have it checked out and rebuilt, if you can't find a place in OK, I know three good places in the DFw area (Two are members of The Lone Star Region, and the third guys dad is a National VCCA Board member, there are certain advantages to belonging to VCCA and a local region...........

MrMack:
Thanks for the info. I found one to replace the existing one. I also have a lead on a local guy that rebuilds these too. The plan is get the old one rebuilt and keep it for a spare. I've been diverted from working on Old Blue for a while, hope to be back on task this weekend.
37Blue

If a 6v starter gets 12v it will spin a lot faster than normal. In most cases on the starter the engine will spin over faster then slow down to idle especially when started in a warm condition.
Tony

Sounds like the faster spinning could explain the overheating problem?
I wonder too if the cummulative effect of many starts over the years, since conversion to a 12 volt system, with the faster spinning caused the eventual failure?
Could this also be a factor in why Old Blue is hard to start after not being driven for 3 or more days?
Are starters interchangable for a 1938 vintage engine and 1949(?) to 195X? The replacement I found is for a 1951 and looks identical to the old one. The ring gear shows worn, mashed teeth, which I suspect is at least partially due to a poor fit/installation of the old starter.
Thanks, 37Blue

Prolonged starter use would cause starter failure, when using 12v on a 6v starter best to use several short cranks than 1 long crank.
When the engine stops it will come to rest in 1 of 3 positions. These spots will wear the most until the teeth wear so much that the starter is spinning before it has engaged the ring gear.
Tony