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#399072 - 12/03/17 12:17 PM JUDGING QUESTION
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.

I recently purchased a 2 owner, 28,000 mile 1969 Corvair 500.

This original P.G. car will be replacing my two stick shift, 1951 Chevys.

When being judged as a factory original car, what is the penalty, if any, for having LED tail light bulbs ?
_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


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#399075 - 12/03/17 01:04 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: bobg1951chevy]
Chev Nut Online




Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 24980
Loc: West Allis,Wi.
First no one would know as long as they are in working order.
_________________________
Chevgene

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#399078 - 12/03/17 02:15 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: Chev Nut]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
Originally Posted By: Chev Nut
First no one would know as long as they are in working order.


Gene, I was thinking a safety check, before judging, would be the key to disclosing LED bulbs.

But again, I don't know the steps or the sequence of procedures for anything at a VCCA event.

That will change, come 2018, GOD willing.
_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


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#399079 - 12/03/17 02:44 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: bobg1951chevy]
Chev Nut Online




Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 24980
Loc: West Allis,Wi.
It is called a Field Entrance Check (for legal reasons) and as long as the specified equipment is operating you are good to go.
With that super fine all original car you should enter it in the HPOCF class. When you get tired of that you can always go to class judging in future years.
_________________________
Chevgene

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#399083 - 12/03/17 03:24 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: Chev Nut]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
[quote=Chev Nut]It is called a Field Entrance Check (for legal reasons) and as long as the specified equipment is operating you are good to go.
With that super fine all original car you should enter it in the HPOCF class. When you get tired of that you can always go to class judging in future years. [/quote ]

Thanks for that info Gene. dance
_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


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#399088 - 12/03/17 06:54 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: bobg1951chevy]
63novaandy Offline

Shade Tree Mechanic

Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 146
Loc: Sylvania, Ohio
It depends on who is doing the field entrance check. I have done many!!! And was doing it one time and we had a car come through and this one guy (will not say a name or where) that was standing at the back for me pointed out the guy had led lights I said I will not take points of as the lights are working but he made a huge deal and ended up taking a couple points off but that was points judging not Hpocf. Personally if the car is really nice I would go through points judging then hpocf after you get preservation


Edited by 63novaandy (12/03/17 06:55 PM)
_________________________
29yr member/3rd generation member
Andy Jurski #42092
Family collection:
26 collector cars:
20 Chevrolet's
2 Ford
1 Oldsmobile
3 Pontiac's


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#399089 - 12/03/17 07:42 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: 63novaandy]
Chev Nut Online




Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 24980
Loc: West Allis,Wi.
BOB refering to LED bulbs in a 1969 Corvair, not the lens with the LEDs built in.
Whie the LED lens makes for bright brakes lights I would deduct for them also.
_________________________
Chevgene

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#399096 - 12/04/17 06:48 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: Chev Nut]
63novaandy Offline

Shade Tree Mechanic

Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 146
Loc: Sylvania, Ohio
Sorry over looked the part of led bulb not lens
_________________________
29yr member/3rd generation member
Andy Jurski #42092
Family collection:
26 collector cars:
20 Chevrolet's
2 Ford
1 Oldsmobile
3 Pontiac's


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#399097 - 12/04/17 06:49 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: Chev Nut]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
Originally Posted By: Chev Nut
BOB refering to LED bulbs in a 1969 Corvair, not the lens with the LEDs built in.
Whie the LED lens makes for bright brakes lights I would deduct for them also.


Yes, like you Gene, I was referring to LED bulbs only.
_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


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#399098 - 12/04/17 07:06 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: 63novaandy]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
Originally Posted By: 63novaandy
It depends on who is doing the field entrance check. I have done many!!! And was doing it one time and we had a car come through and this one guy (will not say a name or where) that was standing at the back for me pointed out the guy had led lights I said I will not take points of as the lights are working but he made a huge deal and ended up taking a couple points off but that was points judging not Hpocf. Personally if the car is really nice I would go through points judging then hpocf after you get preservation


Andy, thanks for your input.

The car is a preserved Corvair, and not a restored vehicle.

It has a "showroom condition" appearance, 28,000 miles.

Honestly Andy, I do not know the pathway of judging, etc., regarding HPOCF vs. points judging.

I hope to understand more once I have a judging manual to study.

I am speaking of LED bulbs only and not lamp assemblies.

As of now, the stock bulbs are in the lamps, but thought the LED bulbs would give me an advantage on todays roads with the crazy drivers we all face.

It appears participants and / or judges can become anal over the entire judging process ..... I'm getting into this arena to see how this car presents itself, not to go 10 rounds with someone over whatever.

We'll see how it all plays out.

Thanks.

_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


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#399101 - 12/04/17 08:34 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: bobg1951chevy]
Rustoholic Offline



Registered: 04/22/06
Posts: 2002
Loc: San Leandro, CA
Although it would be kind of a pain, you could use the LED bulbs for driving and switch back to the old bulbs for showing/judging.

Either way, glad to hear about your original car. Maybe do an article for the G&D?

Cheers, Dean
_________________________
Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz
old and ugly is beautiful!




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#399111 - 12/04/17 11:52 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: Rustoholic]
Chev Nut Online




Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 24980
Loc: West Allis,Wi.
My experiance with LED bulbs is they are not all created equal.
I purchased a pair for my 1957 (CHEAP ONES) And they were not as brite as the original conventional bulbs.

I purchased a pair of more expensive ones for my 1950 (6 volt)and they were about 50% brighter than the originals.

Best is to install one and compare the brillance of the brake lights.
_________________________
Chevgene

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#399134 - 12/04/17 05:43 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: Rustoholic]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
Originally Posted By: Rustoholic
Although it would be kind of a pain, you could use the LED bulbs for driving and switch back to the old bulbs for showing/judging.

Either way, glad to hear about your original car. Maybe do an article for the G&D?

Cheers, Dean


Dean, I never gave a thought to doing a G & D article.
I do have some great history accumulated on this car, going back to its original title, now in my possession, the original window sticker and a few other pieces of paperwork.
_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


Top
#399136 - 12/04/17 05:47 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: Chev Nut]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
Originally Posted By: Chev Nut
My experiance with LED bulbs is they are not all created equal.
I purchased a pair for my 1957 (CHEAP ONES) And they were not as brite as the original conventional bulbs.

I purchased a pair of more expensive ones for my 1950 (6 volt)and they were about 50% brighter than the originals.

Best is to install one and compare the brillance of the brake lights.


I have heard some LRD's do not appear bright, hopefully some Corvair guy out there has already installed LED's, with good results.
_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


Top
#399149 - 12/05/17 05:30 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: bobg1951chevy]
63novaandy Offline

Shade Tree Mechanic

Registered: 08/26/12
Posts: 146
Loc: Sylvania, Ohio
As a note on judging as soon as you enter a car in HPOCF if you pull it out to have it regularly points judged you can not put it back in HPOCF that's why I suggest try showing it about 4 times in points judging if you can get to preservation then put it in HPOCF to be if you have a senior oval on your car and then are able to obtain the HPOCF that speaks very well for your car saying that it is such a nice unrestored car that it can even compete in points judging. My 1937 Master deluxe 4dr sport sedan that I inherited from Grandpa only has 17k original miles on it. The problem is that it does not present it's self good enough in points judging so it hardly ever could get a JR but Hpocf it certifies in all 4 areas that is my opinion
_________________________
29yr member/3rd generation member
Andy Jurski #42092
Family collection:
26 collector cars:
20 Chevrolet's
2 Ford
1 Oldsmobile
3 Pontiac's


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#399153 - 12/05/17 05:48 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: 63novaandy]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
Originally Posted By: 63novaandy
As a note on judging as soon as you enter a car in HPOCF if you pull it out to have it regularly points judged you can not put it back in HPOCF that's why I suggest try showing it about 4 times in points judging if you can get to preservation then put it in HPOCF to be if you have a senior oval on your car and then are able to obtain the HPOCF that speaks very well for your car saying that it is such a nice unrestored car that it can even compete in points judging. My 1937 Master deluxe 4dr sport sedan that I inherited from Grandpa only has 17k original miles on it. The problem is that it does not present it's self good enough in points judging so it hardly ever could get a JR but Hpocf it certifies in all 4 areas that is my opinion

Well, thank you Andy, indeed that provides me with insight. dance
_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


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#399344 - 12/08/17 07:45 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: bobg1951chevy]
35Mike Offline
1500

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 1801
Loc: Columbia, MO
Bob,
My Son, Sam, lives in Durham. He is a Corvair guy and attends CORSA meetings somewhere about 45 minutes away, I think. I know that's not very close to you , but if you want to contact him, I will give you his info. He is a member here, also. There might be a CORSA chapter closer to you. I know there is a Corvair gathering each Fall in Maggie Valley.
I thought some upgrades, for safety, were allowable and not subject to penalties during judging. Wouldn't LED bulbs fall under this category?
I'm surprised Gene did not mention his low mileage Corvair.

Mike
_________________________
ml.russell@mchsi.com

Many miles of happy motoring

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#399357 - 12/08/17 11:09 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: 35Mike]
Chev Nut Online




Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 24980
Loc: West Allis,Wi.
I didn't mention it because there is no way to tell what kind of bulb is in a Corvair tail lamp. As long as the light is working it is all that is required. They do not disassemble any thing in a field entrence check.
_________________________
Chevgene

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#399367 - 12/08/17 01:05 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: 35Mike]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
Originally Posted By: 35Mike
Bob,
My Son, Sam, lives in Durham. He is a Corvair guy and attends CORSA meetings somewhere about 45 minutes away, I think. I know that's not very close to you , but if you want to contact him, I will give you his info. He is a member here, also. There might be a CORSA chapter closer to you. I know there is a Corvair gathering each Fall in Maggie Valley.
I thought some upgrades, for safety, were allowable and not subject to penalties during judging. Wouldn't LED bulbs fall under this category?
I'm surprised Gene did not mention his low mileage Corvair.

Mike

Mike, thanks for the reply and yes, I would be interested in Sam's info. You could either P.M. the info ...... or send the info to bobg1951chevyaaellijaycm

I have recently joined up with a local Corvair club and have also joined CORSA.

Fact is, Mike, my wife and I took our '69 Corvair on its maiden voyage, as the Corvair's new caretakers, to Maggie Valley this fall.

I was surprised to see all LATE MODEL CORVAIRS clumped together for judging, whether stock, modified, exotic paint jobs or factory issue paint ..... all in one big category for judging.

That being said, we did take a third place trophy in the LATE MODEL CLOSED, meaning non convertibles. We were very pleased, considering the competition.

I believe Gene sold his Corvair.

I would agree with you on the LED lights being a safety feature, but think the VCCA judging process would not be in my favor .... if LED's were discovered. I have not installed them, but do believe it would help to keep us safe.
_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


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#399368 - 12/08/17 01:17 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: bobg1951chevy]
Chev Nut Online




Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 24980
Loc: West Allis,Wi.
You are making way too much about the LED bulbs. In all my years of judging, etc. the subject has never even been brought-up.
That would be like do you have nitroge in your tires instead of air.....
Actual Corsa judging is very strict. They have at least three classes and the completely stock class requires like AC brand oil filters, etc. and the real Corvair buff knows what to look for where as the VCCA had a thousand different models that few know very little about.


Edited by Chev Nut (12/08/17 01:49 PM)
_________________________
Chevgene

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#399402 - 12/09/17 08:51 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: Chev Nut]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
Originally Posted By: Chev Nut
You are making way too much about the LED bulbs. In all my years of judging, etc. the subject has never even been brought-up.
That would be like do you have nitroge in your tires instead of air.....
Actual Corsa judging is very strict. They have at least three classes and the completely stock class requires like AC brand oil filters, etc. and the real Corvair buff knows what to look for where as the VCCA had a thousand different models that few know very little about.


I have not been to a VCCA event, this upcoming year of 2018 will be my first year to participate in VCCA events, with judging, as well as VCCA tours.

Seeing that some late model Corvairs have "dimmer taillights", got me thinking of how to brighten up the tail lights. LED's came to mind.

Not knowing the ins and outs of actual VCCA judging, directed me to my question about the LED bulbs.

I will see, first hand, when 2018 rolls around .....

In the interim, I thank each one who replied to my question. dance

_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


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#399404 - 12/09/17 11:10 AM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: bobg1951chevy]
Chev Nut Online




Registered: 01/08/02
Posts: 24980
Loc: West Allis,Wi.
Speaking of light bulbs, you do want the correct T3 sealed beams. I would assume your low mileage cars still has the originals. Also a Delco battery which I know your car does have.
_________________________
Chevgene

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#399433 - 12/09/17 06:12 PM Re: JUDGING QUESTION [Re: Chev Nut]
bobg1951chevy Offline



Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 3335
Loc: Hendersonville, N.C.
Originally Posted By: Chev Nut
Speaking of light bulbs, you do want the correct T3 sealed beams. I would assume your low mileage cars still has the originals. Also a Delco battery which I know your car does have.


Yes Gene, I just looked ..... all the T3 bulbs are there.

Unless I have overlooked an item, the only non factory item are the 13" Firestone radials.

I can understand the tires being a deduction.
_________________________
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe 2 door sedan. Purchased in 2000.
1951 Chevy Styleline Deluxe Sport Coupe. Purchased in 2014.
1969 Chevy Corvair 500 Coupe. Purchased in 2017.


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