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#283673 - 07/13/13 09:32 PM Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? *
Bill Barker Offline
ChatMaster


Registered: 11/20/01
Posts: 4751
Loc: Issaquah, WA
Please note that this thread will only be active for about 90 days.

To kick off the discussion, I'd like to let you all know that the current VCCA membership database currently includes 54 GMC vehicles. So the "rules" for including different models have been pretty flexible.

Now -- what comments or suggestions do you have for the Board of Directors?
idea blahblah argue whip
_________________________
Bill Barker
VCCA CHAT Administrator

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#283684 - 07/14/13 01:54 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Bill Barker]
tonyw Offline




Registered: 05/23/02
Posts: 3129
Loc: Goulburn Australia
The VCCA is Chevrolet based and I feel that should remain. In saying that I can also see accepting other GM variations (GMC, GM-H and possibley others) as there are a lot of interchangeable parts especially amongst the US versions.
I am only 1 member and dont pretend to rule the club.
Tony
_________________________
1938 1/2 ton Hope to drive it before I retire
Chat Group Member

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#283690 - 07/14/13 03:49 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Bill Barker]
The53TwoTen Offline

Backyard Mechanic

Registered: 04/12/07
Posts: 460
Loc: Connecticut
Respectfully,no.
_________________________
"Take a stand and make a mark" Gilbert Kent

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#283691 - 07/14/13 04:50 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: The53TwoTen]
brewster Offline


1500

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 1998
Loc: Ontario,Canada
I don't see why not... We allow Little, Scripps-Booth, etc. GMC owners do not have their own restoration club to go to....
_________________________
Those accustomed to the finest...find it in Chevrolet.

1951 2dr Deluxe Sedan
1950 Deluxe Convertible
2011 Equinox
2008 GMC SLT 4X4

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#283694 - 07/14/13 05:42 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Bill Barker]
m006840 Offline



Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 2428
Loc: merrimack nh
Unless we grow our membership the club will dwindle into non existence. This is one way of doing that.
_________________________
Steve D

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#283696 - 07/14/13 06:49 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: m006840]
p.k. Offline

pumpjockey

Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 772
Loc: seligman ,AZ
Would we then change the name of the club to!
( V.C.G.M.C.O.A. )
wave COOL......
_________________________
p.k.
1939 4 DOOR MASTER DELUXE SPORT SEDAN
1956 BEL AIR 2 DOOR HARDTOP

I'VE spent most of my money on Booze,Women,and mechanical things. The rest I just Wasted........

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#283699 - 07/14/13 07:34 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: p.k.]
m006840 Offline



Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 2428
Loc: merrimack nh
Sounds better than "no longer exists" aka "Dinosaur ". Perhaps we would become the "Generals Motors Club of America" Chevrolet Division with other divisions such as GM had. We don't lose our Chevrolet identity, we just expand and become part of a larger club family. Just as Durant did when organizing GM we could pool our resources and energies and combined perhaps enjoy a more energetic club atmosphere. Consider the fact that some of the VCCA events draw perhaps 200-300 cars at best and they are widely scattered at that. A nearby police association has a fundraising car show event that draws 800-1000 cars annually and many , if not most are GM products. The Anniversary Meets are great with a lot of participation, however some of us are at the age when waiting for one close enough to attend, perhaps we won't be around.
_________________________
Steve D

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#283710 - 07/14/13 10:40 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: m006840]
Junkyard Dog Offline




Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 24460
Loc: Eagle Point, Oregon
Quote:
The Anniversary Meets are great with a lot of participation, however some of us are at the age when waiting for one close enough to attend, perhaps we won't be around.


iagree


Since the VCCA accepts street-rods and modified vehicles, there shouldn't be anything wrong with accepting GMC's as well since many GMC trucks are really a Chevrolet with a GMC nameplate. However, with GMC trucks in the club that will add even more confusion to the current judging system.

laugh wink beer2
_________________________
The Mangy Old Mutt

"If It's Not Junk.....It's Not Treasure!"

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#283713 - 07/14/13 11:06 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Junkyard Dog]
42bill Offline



Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 4907
Loc: Portland, OR
Originally Posted By: Junkyard Dog
[quote]
Since the VCCA accepts street-rods and modified vehicles, there shouldn't be anything wrong with accepting GMC's as well since many GMC trucks are really a Chevrolet with a GMC nameplate. However, with GMC trucks in the club that will add even more confusion to the current judging system.


YES BUT, just as street-rods and modifieds are NOT judged; would need to be same with GMC. No judging for GMC's. There are plenty enough questions about competency of Chevy judges; no way do we want to open GMC can of worms on judges.
_________________________
www.rdgsons.com/vcca/toyz.jpg

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#283715 - 07/14/13 12:01 PM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: 42bill]
Rustoholic Offline

Oil Can Mechanic

Registered: 04/22/06
Posts: 636
Loc: San Leandro, CA
Interesting proposal. I have a few thoughts about this:

1. If the VCCA were to vote yes, then it might be a good idea to create a 'GM truck' umbrella group under which there would be two distinct sub groups: Chevy and GMC. If the GMC folks want to be judged at events, they could grow their own experts and rules.

2. Another possibility is to form a 'GM Restoration and Preservation Club (GMRPC)' with the VCCA being a subgroup. Then, let the GMC folks form their own subgroup with rules, regulations, etc. under that larger group. We could also invite other restoration and preservation clubs (OLDS, Buick, Cadillac, etc.) to join the GMRPC and thus grow the entire GM brand of clubs.

3. A third possibility is to respectfully decline and tell the GMC folks to form local clubs under the Chevy and GMC Truck Club banner (for example http://clubs.hemmings.com/nechevygmc/)

Cheers, Dean
_________________________
Dean 'Rustoholic' Meltz
old and ugly is beautiful!




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#283734 - 07/14/13 02:59 PM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Rustoholic]
the toolman Offline

1500

Registered: 12/25/01
Posts: 1545
Loc: Canton, OH
What we have here is a chat forum that will look at a lot of the issues that would relate to the inclusion of the GMC Brand into the VCCA or not. I am sure that some of you will discuss that at many GM Assembly Plants, Chevrolet and GMC trucks roll off of the same assembly line. Others will decide that IF we include GMC's into the VCCA, that they must be included as "real" members and not just a red-headed step child approach ( no offense intended if you fit that description ). If GMC's are included, do they want to be point judged? Do GMC's just want to be display only and not point judged? If judged, do we create separate truck categories so that 1939 Chevrolet trucks would not compete with 1939 GMC's? If we include GMC's into the VCCA, what would be the percentage of the G&D that should be devoted to GMC? Should GMC's have 2 pages of coverage in the G&D every month? Should GMC's have less pages every month or every other month? The list of questions goes on and on.
I know that all questions asked will not always have defined answers. What we are looking for is a general direction IF we include GMC's.
My personal opinion is this. IF we include GMC's, then they need to be real members and not second class members. I know that there will be many opinions and many ideas generated by this idea. It is all of our jobs to determine if this is a great idea for the VCCA AND also a great idea for GMC owners. If it is not a Win-Win, then we should not proceed with including GMC's into the VCCA.

dtm
_________________________
the toolman
Central #7A Area Director
www.1940chevrolet.com
VCCA # 28873
VCCA #83 Tool Technical Advisor for 1937-1966

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#283735 - 07/14/13 03:16 PM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: the toolman]
Junkyard Dog Offline




Registered: 11/23/01
Posts: 24460
Loc: Eagle Point, Oregon
Quote:
IF we include GMC's, then they need to be real members and not second class members.


I agree.

laugh wink beer2
_________________________
The Mangy Old Mutt

"If It's Not Junk.....It's Not Treasure!"

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#283739 - 07/14/13 04:10 PM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Junkyard Dog]
Tiny Offline



Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3766
Loc: South Central Kansas
Originally Posted By: Junkyard Dog
Quote:
IF we include GMC's, then they need to be real members and not second class members.


I agree.

laugh wink beer2

X3
_________________________
VCCA Member 43216
1938 Business Coupe Before
1938 Business Coupe Now

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#283748 - 07/14/13 05:44 PM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Tiny]
Gunsmoke Offline

1500

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 1832
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
I agree, either in with same privledges as every other member, or not in at all. The primarily affected current members would be the Chevy truck owners, who may have a particular concern us car owners don't realize. For example, some Canadian models were "Maple Leafs", are they considered Chevrolet or GMC. In Aussieland, what were the differences? I don't have any preference one way or the other, Perhaps a 2-3 year trial would enable the directors to assess its workability/issues, and no name change for the organization before trial period is up.


Edited by Gunsmoke (07/14/13 05:45 PM)

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#283761 - 07/14/13 07:31 PM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Gunsmoke]
brewster Offline


1500

Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 1998
Loc: Ontario,Canada
The GMC issue with the G&D will sort itself out. Owners either send articles in, or they don't. Right now there is no set criteria for how much space gets donated to 1934 roadsters... either an article gets written or it doesn't. My region has allowed members to participate with GMC's in the past.
_________________________
Those accustomed to the finest...find it in Chevrolet.

1951 2dr Deluxe Sedan
1950 Deluxe Convertible
2011 Equinox
2008 GMC SLT 4X4

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#283765 - 07/14/13 08:55 PM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: brewster]
junkyardjeff Offline

pumpjockey

Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 969
Loc: Dayton Ohio
I see no problem with GMCs in the VCCA,since the 70s they are basicly the same truck.
_________________________
VCCA #45194

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#283773 - 07/14/13 10:07 PM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: junkyardjeff]
Bill Barker Offline
ChatMaster


Registered: 11/20/01
Posts: 4751
Loc: Issaquah, WA
Ever since 2011 (the 100th Anniversary of Chevrolet) there have been a number of articles published describing the historical events of the company.

Along with that, I have read the first 15 issues of the G&D three different times while coming up with the "snippets" that are currently being published in the G&D.

In light of all of this I'm struck by how brilliant some of the early business decisions were by Durant and others.

One such "issue" was that after Chevrolet joined the GM family, there was a marketing gap that affected the Buick, Pontiac and Oldsmobile product lines. The dealers for these vehicles were besieged constantly for a product which they didn't have - a pickup truck.

So in a brilliant maneuver, the GM brain-trust decided to offer up GMC pickup trucks. This then allows all of the non-Chevrolet dealers to offer a TRUCK which didn't promote their competitors brand (Chevrolet). (Note: In later years they morphed and became "re-branded" Chevrolet trucks.) Brilliant.

Now, the truth is that the GMC brand was officially introduced in 1912. So it is within a few months of age as it's sibling.

Now, here we are about
Quote:

"From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_%28automobile%29

GMC and Chevrolet trucks are virtually identical except for the grilles and nameplates, though their differences have varied over the years. While Chevrolet vehicles are sold exclusively at Chevrolet dealerships, GMC light trucks have been made available to Buick, Pontiac and Cadillac dealerships, and separate franchises exist for medium and light-duty models as well. This crossover allowed GM dealers that did not sell Chevrolets to offer full lineups of both cars and trucks by offering GMC's trucks alongside "non-truck" divisions such as the mid-range Pontiac. Between 1962 and 1972, most GMC vehicles were equipped with quad-headlights, while their Chevrolet clones were equipped with dual-headlights. In 1973, with GMís introduction of the new "rounded line" series trucks, GMC and Chevrolet trucks became even more similar, ending production of GMCís quad-headlight models, and setting the standard for the Chevrolet/GMC line of trucks for over thirty years. During this period, the companies' sister models (Silverado/Sierra, Blazer/Jimmy, Tahoe/Yukon, etc.) shared everything except for trims and prices. GM has recently begun a divergence in design between the two lines with the 2007 model Silverados and Sierras, which have some differences in sheet metal and style."


I can't imagine why we WOULDN'T allow GMC vehicles in our organization with full "member privileges".

--Bill B

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#283775 - 07/15/13 12:47 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Bill Barker]
Solan Offline




Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 2265
Loc: Oslo, Norway
When we started the Chevrolet Club of Norway we at the same time also included the GMCs and forerunners, but not the other wellknown brands: Cadillac, Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac, even if they missed a club to join here.

During these years there has not been any problem with this. There are some few GMCs in the club, mostly trucks and vans.
We help each other and drive together.

The manuals bought for CCONs members to use are basicly collected in Chevrolet "writing", but the color charts are a combination for some of the years.

I would recommend the GMCs to be allowed officially into our club and (only)as full members and vote YES.

Agrin
_________________________
Solan G, # 32797

Take advantage in your hobby by being member of VCCA!



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#283779 - 07/15/13 02:47 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Solan]
dunfire Offline

Backyard Mechanic

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 207
Loc: Palm Harbor, FL
My intent in submitting the motion to incorporate GMCís as a brand within the VCCA is that in my opinion there are more similarities than differences between Chevrolets and GMCís from the mid 30ís until present day. Since acquiring my 1936 GMC I have numerous discussions with owners of 1936 Chevrolet trucks and although there are unique features on my GMC, the assistance and experience from the Chevrolet owners have been very helpful in my restoration of my truck due to the considerable similarities that my truck shares with a Chevrolet Truck. I think that this would be a benefit to both the Chevrolet and the GMC owners in having a larger resource available as well.

When this subject first came up on the this web site it was mentioned that the Pontiac Club had included GMC as a sub group. I belonged to that group for about a year and as I stated on the chat site, it felt to me that this was a token effort on their part. They did not spend much effort to bring GMC owners into their organization nor was there much in the way of resources available.

I would agree that if GMC were to be included as a brand, judging criteria could be done at a later time as membership and expertise increases to warrant that it be developed however with current members who own GMC's and the potential of new members coming in, I don't think that this is large obstacle.

Finally I believe that this would be a good fit for both the VCCA and GMC owners. The increased membership, revenue and the increase of resources of experience and talent to both groups are all positive in my opinion.
_________________________
1936 GMC T-14 low cab

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#283780 - 07/15/13 04:13 AM GMC's in the VCCA? [Re: Bill Barker]
OldCarKook Offline

Grease Monkey

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 29
Loc: Boston, MA VCCA# 50165
Get a cuppa coffee and your reading glasses, this is not a short read...

This is clearly a thorny issue for the VCCA forum, and hard to say if the posts here truly represent the will of the membership of the VCCA, or just those who are members (or not - like me) of your internet forum. It is a topic that is wrought with emotion more than common sense and business sense.

I have been a member of this forum for over 10 years. My member number here is 2113.

I am also the founder of oldGMCtruckscm, a restoration and preservation resource for pre '59 GMC trucks. I worked as a GMC product expert for GM Media Archives in '96 as they were rebuilding their archives for all GM brands. I also recruited and enlisted my friend of 3 decades in that job; Jim Carter who is pretty well known in Chevy truck circles. GMC refers people to me and my site frequently for help on VIN or other GMC unique questions that they don't have a clue about.

Internet forums are the lifeblood of today's hobby for restoration. It's just undeniable that when any of us who use this box have a question, we hop on google and type and the next thing you know, you are in someone's internet forum. That in turn usually leads to either membership or them following those forums regularly.

Like VCCA, oldgmctruckscm is a brand loyalist group. We have many members who own Chevy trucks, but like VCCA forums, most of our membership is GMC based.

The world has changed a good bit. Publishing is dying a slow agonizing death as a result of Al Gore's invention of the internet. Brand loyalist magazines are the sole ray of sunshine in the otherwise abysmal world of publishing. Everyone is scrambling for identity, readership, and memberships. On production numbers alone, Chevrolet CRUSHES nearly all brands except the company whose name must not be spoken in Dearborn. If you were to include production of GM vehicles on the whole, then the numbers of owners become staggeringly large.

So the company with the greatest production has the broadest pull but the reality is that for the majority of the members here, the vehicles they own that bring them to VCCA membership are 40 plus years old. Look around. We are not getting any younger and as the old saying goes, he that will not apply new remedies must expect new evils.

I am not a VCCA member so I am unable to locate or access the VCCA by-laws, but I am very interested to know what the stated purpose of this Association is. Therein may well lie your answer, or your downfall.

Excluding anyone from membership in something in this overly politically correct world can be problematic, but being stubborn to the point of obstinate about changing is a death sentence.

If you go to a show, you find Chevy truck guys hovering around GMCs, and vice versa. That is just a natural association as we both share body styling and the mechanical differences are a great source of debate and competitive rivalry amongst "family"; like two brothers playing a game of backyard basketball. You're with family so there is some comfort there.

Chevy was a car company so the membership numbers alone are heavily weighted towards cars. I can understand the reluctance to include membership for a truck group, but you have to realize that your truck membership numbers are tiny compared to your car membership numbers and you try to support them both. I checked the Commercial forum here before I started this post and found virtually no activity. Your truck membership is not active here. Why? Likely because they are over on the Stovebolt site or our site, but that is conjecture on my part as I have no idea where they are; but they are not here in the way that your car membership is.

Whether or not you "allow" GMC trucks in the VCCA is BOD and Club membership decision. As you take this decision into consideration, recognize the importance of inclusion for the benefit of the organization. It does not appear that VCCA membership is growing from the tone of comments I've read here. Where is VCCA going? What is VCCA's future? How many members are members exclusively for G&D? Probably more than you realize. Where there are plenty of Chevy cars and trucks with GMC motors in them, and plenty of GMC trucks with Chevy parts on them, our bloodline is undeniable and we need to respect our own. We are joined at the hip, like it or not.

I think that in speaking as founder of oldGMCtruckscm and as the administrator of a brand loyalist group with nearly 5,000 members in 9 years, VCCA would be wise to take this decision carefully and openly. If you added 1,000 members to VCCA so that we could contribute to and receive G&D, that would seem to me to be a good thing. If we begin to help Chevy truck owners with answers to common problems, that would be a good thing. If we were to have an opportunity to have our trucks judged at VCCA sanctioned events, that too would be a good thing.

Do as you see fit, but branding someone a second class citizen (VCCA member) because of the truck they drive is dangerous business for survival. We are in an intensely competitive fast moving world and we need all the friends we can get in our restoration and preservation efforts. We are cut from the same mold and have the same mindset.

GMC owners are not the enemy of VCCA and as far as G&D articles and VCCA sanctioned show judging goes, VCCA has an opportunity to increase membership and make new friends.

Remember that an internet forum may not represent the overall view of your membership as some segment of your membership may not use the internet with any regularity.
_________________________
http://www.OldGMCTrucks.com
Restoration and Preservation Resource
VCCA Member#50165

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#283785 - 07/15/13 06:04 AM Re: GMC's in the VCCA? [Re: OldCarKook]
Gunsmoke Offline

1500

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 1832
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
I want this guy in my VCCA! Well said, and I think well reasoned. All my life I considered Chevrolet and GMC trucks to be virtually the same product except for the badging and dealership propaganda. No Chevy owner is afeard of competition!

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#283789 - 07/15/13 06:32 AM Re: GMC's in the VCCA? [Re: Gunsmoke]
donsbigtrucks Offline

1000

Registered: 04/25/08
Posts: 1134
Loc: WI
Its talked about how the hobby needs to start getting younger people involved as the average age of "car people" gets older every year. I know that many clubs actually have been loosing more older members each year than they are adding younger members.
If another element could be added, say GMC trucks that raises the opportunity to grow the club membership.
If the VCCA were to ad GMC to the the ranks it would indeed cause growing pains to set up judging, articles for G & D issues and so on.
A good point to ad or not to ad can be made on either side of the fence. The decision should be made based on will it make a stronger and better organization in the end.
My vote would be, Yes.

Thanks, Don

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#283792 - 07/15/13 07:07 AM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Bill Barker]
Oldiron Offline

Shade Tree Mechanic

Registered: 08/22/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Alvaton, Kentucky, USA
I agree to including GMC's into the VCCA. I believe the positives are greater than the negatives. I have owned two 1953 GMC's in the past and currently have a 2003 GMC HD 2500 for a hauler. Based on my experience at shows and meets on both coasts, there is a "kinship" between Chevrolet and GMC owners. Thanks for the opportunity to comment.

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#283807 - 07/15/13 08:44 AM Re: GMC's in the VCCA? [Re: donsbigtrucks]
dunfire Offline

Backyard Mechanic

Registered: 11/06/04
Posts: 207
Loc: Palm Harbor, FL
Some additional thoughts have come to mind regarding incorporating the GMC brand into the VCCA. The truck I had before my 1936 GMC was a 1922 American LaFrance fire engine, so I also belong to SPAAMFAA, which is an antique fire apparatus organization.

The concern that this organization has had for some time has been its dwindling membership as the current membership grows older and younger individuals not coming into the organization. I think part of this trend may be due to the financial status of a lot of people today but also I think that many members donít foster the enthusiasm that they have to the upcoming generations. I also think that the SPAAMFAA is not unique. I believe that is also the case with most other auto enthusiastís groups. I believe that the inclusion of GMC to the VCCA will increase its membership base and I also think that it will foster more interest to perhaps the first time auto restorer or younger individuals to make the VCCA a stronger organization.

The other thought that I have is that vintage truck ownership and restoration are one of the biggest collector car segments right now and have been for some time. Vintage trucks are vehicles that almost everyone identifies with in a very positive manner. And as many of you know the late 40ís to mid-50ís vintage Chevrolet, GMC and Ford trucks are very popular, as the predominant part suppliers such as The Filling Station, Jim Carters and American Classic Truck can attest to. I have been to car shows and I have seen firsthand the draw that vintage trucks have with people in general, I canít help but to believe that including GMC as a brand to the VCCA would further strengthen the positive perception of this organization.


_________________________
1936 GMC T-14 low cab

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#283839 - 07/15/13 01:53 PM Re: Should GMC's be added to the VCCA? [Re: Bill Barker]
Dave39MD Online

Backyard Mechanic

Registered: 07/04/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Thousand Oaks, CA
It makes sense for all the reasons mentioned and as a Chevy truck owner I would welcome the additional knowledge and expertise.

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