To Bill Barker Moderator:
I have followed that thread with great interest, but as a human being I am bothered by the way the thread was closed. A lot of accusations were made by people who believe that they are right. Both sides of the engine rebuild have stated a case. Somewhere in the middle is the truth. Was the engine rebuilt right? One side says yes and states the case of several engine overheats. The other side says no - and has shells with no oil grooves to back up his side. At this point I don't see why a candid discussion did not follow instead of the thread being closed. I still wonder why the engine overheating was not stated earlier in the thread and I would love to know why the rebuilder used ungrooved shells. We all have different opinions which is what makes us human. But Rush Limbaugh said it best when he stated " Lead by example - Facts Matter, Truth Counts and Wrong's not Right - EVER - Think About It". I feel sad that this forum could not be used to bring both parties together to resolve the problem - with some give and take on both sides, instead of just closing the thread after allegations are made. Are we not Adults? Can we not reason? If we would just communicate instead of ASSUME - we can all resolve problems and enjoy this wonderful hobby. It saddens me to see the thread abruptly closed instead of real discussions continuing to resolve the problem and maybe someone will be man enough to utter those scary words " I'm Sorry - I made a Mistake - what would you like me to do to make amends" in regards to both the engine and the accusations:(

HI MOEDIP, THANKS FOR THE REPLY AND COMMENTS. AS TO MY ENGINE OVERHEATING PROBLEM, WELL HERE IT IS, FOR THE FIRST ONE HUNDRED FIFTY MILES AND SEVERAL HOURS RUNNING THE ENGINE IN MY GARAGE, I HAD A HEAT PROBLEM FROM THE ENGINE BEING NEW. THE TIMING WAS SET RIGHT ,AS I NEVER TOOK THE DISTRIBUTER OUT UNTIL AFTER THE MILES AND HOURS OF RUNNING THE ENGINE IN THE GARAGE. THE ONLY REASON THE DISTRIBUTER WAS TAKEN OUT WAS BECAUSE I BOUGHT A BETTER ELECTROLOCK FROM SKIP GEAR WHICH CAME WITH THE DISTRIBUTER. AFTER THE MILES AND RUNNING THE ENGINE, THE HEATING PROBLEM COMPLETELY WENT AWAY AND NOW RUNS AT THE RIGHT TEMP. THE PART OF HAVING TROUBLE TURNING THE ENGINE OVER NOW, IS BECAUSE THE TIMING IS TO FAR ADVANCED. THANKS DON

Great! - we have a start! OK - Pre68dave - is it normal for your rebuilds to run hotter than normal for the first few hours because of engine tightness? How high should should he have allowed the temp to climb before shutting the engine off to avoid damage to the aluminum pistons? Or is it normal to run hotter at first? Was he advised of the repercussions to the pistons from the higher heat? Has any one else had a newly rebuilt motor run hot from the get go because of tightness? Doesn't advancing the timing too far cause higher engine heat? How hot is too hot? I'm trying to broker some peace here - so please respond.

The last two engines I have done were test run on a rolling frame that is fitted with exhaust, gas tank, battery and radiator. The first two or three times they were started they began to overheat and were shut down. After that there was no problem. Both engines have Egge aluminum pistons, neither was converted to insert rod bearings.

OK - so how hot is too hot (what temp does the engine have to go to ) that the egge pistons will collapse like Don's?

Fellas,
I too was a bit disappointed in stopping the thread. However, I understand that people will write their thoughts without taking into account that it might not be read the way it was intended. We must all try to think about who is going to read what we write and will they be in the same frame of mind as the writer. When I feel that I am possibly getting into a sticky situation, I have the BOSS read what I have written in an attempt to not irritate readers. It works most of the time. I am sorry and appologize if I contributed to any irritation or misunderstanding.

I feel that someone, maybe moedip or Donald, could take the total information on the engine and write an article. It should be when the engine has been fully evaluated and fixed. It may help someone else avoid similar problems.

It is normal for newly rebuilt engines to run a bit hot for the initial run period. I rebuilt a '32 engine with 0.060" oversize aluminum pistons (NORS) about 30 years ago. As I remember it ran a bit hot for a while even with a modern replacement cellular radiator core. We allowed +0.002" fit to compensate for the higher expansion of the aluminum vs cast iron block. It was in the normal range for modern engines though maybe a bit higher gap. With the lack of full cylinder cooling on the early Chev 6 cylinder blocks the pistons will run a bit hotter than full jacketed blocks.

We never had any piston slap problems with the engine during several thousand miles of operation. But as written in the other thread I have a '31 engine (original cast iron pistons) with 0.004+" gap and taper that clunks a bit at idle speeds. It is guiet at higher speeds. Since it was considered temporary replacement to the original and time was a bit short to get it back in operation we put it back together knowing that it should have been bored. It is still clunking and running after ~ 1500 hard miles.

I look forward to getting additional information from all involved. That way we can all learn something.

"I look forward to getting additional information from all involved. That way we can all learn something" AMEN!
I really believe that if both parties in this fiasco will both start communicating and really try to understand the other's viewpoint that they will come up with a resolution to the problem somewhere in the middle. But both have to bend a little. Here's hopin'
WHAT DO YOU SAY GUYS?
Pre68dave - will you weigh in? Are you willing to at least talk about a solution ?
Chevy - if you are certain in your own mind that you did not run the engine hot enough to damage the piston - would you be willing to send it to Egge for evaluation as to cause of failure?
Pre68dave - if the piston comes back as defective manufacture - would you be willing to do the necessary repairs under warranty?

I'm sticking my nose in - and I hope I don't get it chopped off!!! and pre68dave knew he could do it - or he wouldn't have taken the job. Somewhere something went wrong. I leave the ball in both of your courts.

Hi Folks, I have been following the thread also and hoped it would have continued. I had my engine rebuilt and it overheated from the get go. I was told that it was because everything was nice and tight and it would go away. It would shoot up too boiling in just a few minutes after the start. after fooling around with it,checking the timeing, I temporarily in stalled a 3 core radiator from a chrysler (brand new out of the box) it did the same thing, boiled over instantly. At that point in time I decided to check the radiator for hydrocarbons and found that I had more exhaust in the radiator than out of the tail pipe. At that stage of the game I checked the compression (w hich was good in all cylinders) and decided to change the head gasket....it didn't help any. I then removed the head and sent it back to the machine shop to check over and we found all the valve seats leaking. The head was junk so they started looking for another and in the meantime I sent the water pump out to be rebuilt. When the head came back ( a 33 head that I wasn't told about) I installed it and the same thing boiled over just like before. Removed the engine and sent it back to magnaflux the block.....Oops have to go will get back shortly with the fix..hang on

If this continues I think blame should not be placed on any one person.At this point we do not know for sure what the problem is.The pistons will have to to be removed and analyzed and then it still will be spectulation as to what happened.To get so hot as to do damage, an engine would need to have the water boiled way or driven a long distance while very hot.Think we should all cool it for now until more facts are known.

I agree with Chevy Nut particularly since overheating was never a part of the issue from what Donald has been saying. And, somehow things got misconstrued at the end of the last thread that his pistons were collapsed, which at this point, is definitely not the case. I think that we should wait until all of the details are in from Donald, and since it is his engine, and his money that is invested, it is up to him what he does next, if anything, or how he is going to pursue the problem with his new engine and the engine rebuilder in the forthcoming weeks.

Sorry about that, but when you have to go you go Anyway when I got the engine back and installed guess what, the dam thing was still overheating..hooked it up to the wrecker and went back to check for hydocarbons again...it had dropped quite a bit but I was not a happy camper. It was not boiling like before but it ran on the hot side. I left it running up on the wrecker and came home...still not boiling but running in the normal range which was an improvement. Lowered the car on the driveway and it would start to heat up..lift it up and it would cool down. At that point in time I said hell " I'll just run it with small wheels in the back or just big ones in the front" I finnaly got in touch with a Chevy Garu and he came down to check this engine over and had me remove the head one more time to check it out and found #5 cyl's were running very hot. Removed my rebuilt water pump and started to check the large plug in the block and the water pump and the fix was the impeller on the pump was to far away from the housing. He brought the pump to his shop and corrected the clearance of the impeller and the car has been fine since. He stated that I had a good flow of water but not enough volume. I'm running it with the original radiator and have put about 300 miles on it and most of it was this summer in 90 degree weather and it runs nice and cool, even idling.

Over the years I have overhauled a few 216 engines and never had one run hot after the work. If the work is done right it should fire up and run as it did before. Hit the starter and it should run. If you have to tow or push it to start it, its way to tight.

Lets talk about shim stock fot the bearings. When I overhauled a unmolested chev engine I always found several shims on the rods and mains. The brass and the silver colored ones and if I remember correctly the brass were the thicker of the two. Maybe I haven't payed much attention to the engines I've worked on but I have never seen shims on an insert bearing.

Thats my two cents worth, if its worth that and looking forward to the fix on Don's car :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

WOW, WHAT A GREAT SUBJECT ALL ABOUT ENGINE PROBLEMS, MY ENGINE IS ONLY ONE OF PROBABLY ALOT OF OTHER ENGINE PROBLEMS. I THINK PRE68DAVE IS A VERY GOOD MECHANIC AND NO BLAME IS DUE HIM ON MY ENGINE. AS I STATED BEFORE WHEN I BOUGHT THE CAR, THE 32 ENGINE HAD A 31 HEAD ON IT, SO I FOUND A 32 HEAD AND HAD IT REDONE. THE ENGINE HAD 31 RODS, SO I FOUND 32 RODS AND HAD THE MACHINE SHOP DO INSERTS IN THEM. THE ENGINE WAS SIXTY OVER, SO I HAD THE MACHINE SHOP RESLEEVE THE CYLINDERS BACK TO STANDARD. THE ENGINE HAD 31 ROCKER ARMS, SO I FOUND A 32 ROCKER ARM ASSEMBLY AND HAD IT REWORKED. I NEVER EVER WORKED ON A CAR OR ENGINE BEFORE AND IM REALLY A GREENHORN WHEN IT COMES TO THE MECHANICAL THINGS. IM LEARNING EVERY DAY????? I HEARD THAT ALUMINUM PISTONS WAS THE BEST WAY TO GO, SO I CALLED EGGE IN CALIFORNIA AND ORDERED A SET OF STANDARD ALUMINUM PISTONS AND A SET OF CAST IRON RINGS. WHEN THE MACHINE SHOP STARTED ON MY ENGINE I TOOK THE PISTONS TO HIM AND HE ASKED, WHERE DID YOU BUY THE PISTONS AND I SAID, EGGE? WELL HE SAID, THAT IS THE WORST PLACE TO BUY ALUMINUM PISTONS. ANYWAY THAT IS WHAT IS IN MY ENGINE. MY ENGINE DID BOIL OVER SEVERAL TIMES WHEN I RAN IT IN THE GARAGE, AFTER RUNNING ONLY A SHORT TIME. AFTER 150 MILES OF RUNNING AND HOURS RUNNING IN THE GARAGE, IT RAN COOLER. THE ENGINE ALSO HAD A 31 DISTRIBUTER IN IT AND I TOOK IT OUT AND SKIP GEEAR SOLD ME A BEAUTIFUL RESTORED 32 DISTRIBUTER AND ELECTROLOCK, WHICH I INSTALLED AND HAVE NOW GOT IT TOO FAR ADVANCED, THIS IS WHY I HAVE TROUBLE GETTING THE ENGINE TO TURN OVER GOOD WHEN TRYING TO START IT ANOTHER WORDS ITS LIKE TRYING TO START A NEW ENGINE AFTER IT GETS HOT, THEY DONT WANT TO TURN OVER VERY WELL. I HAVE HEARD SEVERAL DIFFERENT COMMENTS ABOUT EGGE PISTONS GIVING PROBLEMS, AND ALSO PEOPLE WHO SWEAR BY THEM. MY PISTONS ARE NOT COLLAPSED AND AS IT STANDS NOW, NUMBER SIX PISTON AND NUMBER TWO PISTON ARE THE TWO PISTONS THAT APPEAR TO BE GIVING PISTON SLAP. I DO NOT PLAN ON TAKING THE ENGINE OUT OF THE CAR OR EVEN PLAN ON TAKING THE HEAD OFF THE ENGINE AT THIS TIME. IM PUTTING THE ROD INSERTS BACK IN AND I WILL HAVE BETWEEN .001 AND .002 CLEARANCE. PRE68DAVE IS A FRIEND OF MINE AND HE HAS DONE MANY MANY CHEVROLETS AND HIS WORK AND REPUTATION, I WILL STAND BY
I WILL PUT THE ENGINE BACK IN RUNNING ORDER AND DRIVE THE CAR. I WILL ALSO LOOK FOR ANOTHER 32 BLOCK AND PARTS TO GO WITH IT AND HAVE ANOTHER ENGINE BUILT UP , FOR MY CAR DOWN THE ROAD OR JUST HAVE IT FOR DISPLAY. I HAVE HAD FOUR EMAILS FROM OTHER GUYS WHO HAVE READ THIS WHOLE SERIES THAT YOU GUYS HAVE MADE GREAT COMMENTS ON AND THEY ALL HAVE SAID THEY HAVE LEARNED THINGS ABOUT CHEVY ENGINES AND WHAT TO DO AND LOOK FOR. I DONT THINK ANY OF US SHOULD PICK ANYONE APART, BUT WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT ENGINE PROBLEMS AND FIXES, WHICH WILL BENEFIT EVERYONE, AND NOT HURT ANYONES FEELINGS, THAT IS WHAT THIS CHAT SITE IS FOR. THATS IT FOR NOW, MY FINGERS ARE STARTING TO BLEED FORM HEN PECKING THIS KEYBOARD? THANKS DON

Donald,
If my experience is any indication, the engine will run as long as we do (1500+ miles and counting). Cathy's firetruck does not sound too good when idling slowly but runs well and hasn't stopped yet. A little piston slap is not good but also not likely to cause major problems immediately. If you don't like to hear the piston slap get a big pair of ear muffs or turn up the radio. If I think that someone will get concerned I just increase the idle speed a bit and the clunking sound goes away. Besides those aluminum pistons will not hammer as bad as our cast iron ones do.

Well, I wasn't going to extend a thread unnecessarily, but I've also received some emails (and phone calls)... all of them postive about me closing the previous discussion.

The first message in this thread says "A lot of accusations were made by people ..." and that, my friend is precisely why I closed it down... the discussion originally started as a positive one with lots of helpful comments about how to resolve a knocking engine noise... As the discussion moved on to page 6, some of the discussions got off track in solving the problem and instead shifted to a more personal discussion based on NO evidence at all. I concur with Moedip that these then become accusations, and that's the kind of stuff that we don't need here.

So, I shut that one down in hopes of getting the TONE of the discussion back on track.... (re-read my closing note if you missed it.)

Another consideration is that the thread had already gone on for 6 pages and it would be easier on our system if we limit them and move on when the topics are sufficiently covered.

Now... for future reference... the previous discussion was closed, BUT I also said that Don should come back to us when he's got more information about "facts" that would be useful to everyone. Two postings above this one, he's done that!! Thanks Don. So, the discussion now continues again, but focused back on the issues at hand and void of the unsubstantiated "accusations" that were begining to show up.

By the way, as "one of the moderators" for the 29-32 forum, I also emailed one of the other moderators as soon as I had shut the thread down.... we are ALL trying to make this a positive and informative place where Chevy lovers can chat and chew. And as a moderator we all have to do what we think is best in this regard. In retrospect, I'm still comfortable with what I did and I see no need to apologize. Prior to my posting here, this thread re-started in just the positive vein that I had hoped it would.

If anyone would like to dialogue further, please feel free to email me directly anytime. I display my email on my Profile page just for that purpose. If you want to hold a public discussion on the duties and responsibilites of the Moderators for VCCA Chat, please post a NEW thread in the forum and keep these year group ones focused on the cars. Thanks... and let the productive discussions continue!

After all of the discussions on the pros and cons of the Aluminum piston I went back and read the section of my 1927 and 1928 National AA and AB repair manual about the "new" aluminum pistons introduced in the AB engine, It is an interesting piece about the difference in fitting Aluminum Vs/ Cast iron pistons and the method used to prevent the heat tansfer from the head of the piston to the skirt, and what they did to eliminate piston slap in the new engine.

Dang man!!! Ya gonna keep us in suspense or tell us what they said!??!?!?

Mr. Barker was right when he closed the prior thread. Enough was said to help start diagnosing the engine and it was getting "off track in solving the problem".

Helping a guy guess-a-diagnosis of an engine problem is one thing: trying to do a "chat forum" trial to fix blame, or bring people together, is another. Both the engine owner and the rebuilder were able to read all of our suggestions and opinions. Let them decide what to do next.

It was Moedips quote of the Radio Politician that got me thinking about the "truth" of what may the real root of the problem. Both Radio Politician and me come from a State that has the motto "Show Me". What this means is that regardless of what you 'say' it comes down to Showing -The -Proof. A radioshow hosts' idea of the "truth" is usually defined by them as whatever comes out of their mouth: in radio talkshows they don't show proof...they rely on the listeners "faith".

"Lay your hands on the radio and believe in me" .....reminds me that ALL of what I see and hear on this VCCA "forum" may, or may not, be a representive of "truth". I think its best not to judge any individual by "alledged facts" in any forum. I take all these "forum truths" with a grain of salt.

Dons' motor......Well, we can't see that real engine unless we stand right in front of it and even then it comes down to the "tail of the tape" as to what a good mechanic can measure and view the "possible and probable" cause of the problem.

Us folks on the this forum can't usually even see real "evidence" in these post; and posting "truth" is even trickier.

Don has made his engine decision with the help of our "opinions"...so Good Luck Don and I hope it all works well!

I got to go now because of I just got an e-mail that will make me rich! A lady in Nigeria will trust me to deposit 30,000,000 dollars in my bank account! All I have to do is give her my account number and we will split the 30,000,000. How lucky can I get?

Hey MrMack, I am with Bill. What did they say to prevent the piston slap? By the way I have Egge pistons in my 31. I have to admit I have not read every line of this thread but other than the noise what problems come with piston slap?

Piston slap over time will damage and cause excessive wear to the cylinder wall and the piston,.
The 1928 aluminum alloy piston was cast with an "Invar strut" the Invar strut was cast into the piston because the Invar alloy had a very low heat expansion index. Since Aluminum has a higher expansion index than cast iron the former alloy pistons could not be fitted as close to the cylinder walls when they are cold, and they would slap the cylinder walls, then at operating temp they would fill the cylinder and the slap goes away. the Invar Strut was supposed to keep the skirt from expanding so much due to the lower heat transfer rate and therefore it could be fitted closer to cylinder diameter at room temperature. The piston head was also sawn all the way around to keep the heat transfer low on the outer surface of the head to the skirt. Now does that seem logical? at least in theory?

Now everybody with aluminum pistons should not panic if they have a little piston slap when the engine is cold.The cast iron pistons also could make noise if a little loose.If noise goes away after the first five minutes there is nothing to worry about.The replacment pistons usually don't have the steel Invar strut and have a T slot cut in the skirt instead this is old technology but acceptable and they will make a little noise when cold.Should be most apparent under slight pull.The 1953 Power Glide engines often had piston slap with steel strut and all that is why they changed,in 1954,to pistons with off set pins to equalize the thrust of the piston on the cyl. wall to eliminate noise.The off set pin ment the wrist pin was not centered in the piston but slightly of to one side.Piston slap was also found in the 50-52 Power Glides with iron pistons and standard high limit .001" oversize pistons were installed or Recam piston expanders were sometimes installed.It was a spring type "wedge" that was inserted between the wrist pin boss and piston skirt to expand the piston.Due to the quite hydralic valve lifters in the PG engine other noises were more easily detected......And piston noise is still with us today,As an example the Chev. 3.1 & 3.4 engines.If people complain pistons with tefflon coated skirts are installed to cushion the slap.The ones that don't complain go on to drive them 100,000 plus miles with no problem.

Gene, that is very true, Some of the 5300 engines in the 2001 Surburbans and Tahoes were brought in for service due to piston slap complaints, with very few miles on them, I don't know if GM really got to the bottom of that can of worms. (Maybe the Teflon coated pistons as a solution?) Other engines of the same production runs are so quiet you can't hear them running if the A/C is off. I guess those that wear a cell phone duct taped to their ear and those with megawatt music? blasting out the 4 or 5 speakers don't notice it, just the listeners for noise group does.

The engines I mentioned for an example are only an few of what I have seen over the years.There has been problems like this on most makes.The pistons used in many current engines have very short skirts,Many extend only about 2" below the rings.This is done for low friction for fuel milage but it ends up giving the piston less bearing area to keep the piston from rocking.This is what modern technology is all about.

OK, now I will sound even dumber. What does piston slap sound like? I have overhauled a few in my life but I don't believe I have ever heard piston slap. Is it like a knock, or something else? I know it is hard to describe a sound but give it a try if you will.

Gene, Modern Technology, does that mean you engineer a engine and a car for what comes out of the tailpipe rather than what comes out of the driveshaft? I think that is so.

I think maybe it sounds kind'a like k-slap, k-slap,k-slap? not so much like tic, tic, tic or bang, bang, bang?

Matt,Piston slap in a stock 216 with iron pistons will sound like a slight ping when under pull and will go away as engine warms up.With aluminum pistons it sounds like an old Plymouth,which was the king of piston noise.First if it is so bad you can hear it at idle when cold it will stand out over normal tappet noise but as MrMack said it will be a clap .If heard under a pull it will be a little deeper noise like a heavy ping.There again it should go away as engine warms up.Advancing the timing will make it a little louder as it puts a little more thrust on the piston.Noises are the most difficult things to try to describe as we all use different descriptons.Also various types of pistons will have slightly different noise characteristics......Ths was as difficult as answering Don's original question on bottom engine noises....And yes if only one piston is making noise it can be shorted out.If you understood this your lucky

Well, as I have heard ,That what happens is that the piston is pushed up against compression, then when the mixture explodes ( say burns if you must!) the force suddenly slams back down on the piston, piston pin , connecting rod and crank, The piston rotates slightly around the axis of the piston pin, remember, the moment of force is changeing because the angle of the connecting rod is changeing due to the lower part of the rod following the offset rotation of the crankshaft......then if there is too much clearance the skirt slaps the cylinder wall...... short out the plug , there is no explosion and when there is no explosion......no slap!

The noise can be confused with a rod or main bearing knock. The best way to determine what is causing the noise is to dismantle and look and measure. The next best is to use a stethascope or other listening device. I use a very large screwdriver. Put the blade on various parts of the engine block and the handle up to your ear. As you move the blade end you will hear noises getting louder or softer. When at the loudest, you are likely near to the source. I say likely because noises are transmitted along shafts, rods and other structural parts of the engine.

If I think that I will not be damaging the engine further, I will always get out my screwdriver and check things out. Too many times I have taken off and sometimes replaced a good functional part only to find that it did not solve the problem. Listening to what the engine, transmission, water pump, distributor or other part is telling us. It sure helps fix the problem the first time.

If you try it on a good functioning part you will be amazed at the sounds that you will hear. Whirs, clicks, humms but no clunks. Clunks are bad news.

Hey teach, can we put listening to engine sounds into our curriculum?

HEY CHIPPER DIPPER, I TOOK YOUR ADVICE AND BOUGHT A STETHASCOPE, AND GUESS WHAT?

Donald, at our house I found out that what I thought was the dinner bell was really the smoke alarm! It went off every time you now who put the frying pan on the stove! good thang I like my steak, frioles , and taters well done! ( and if I want her to know I said this I will tell her!)

YA, BUT MR MACKIE WACKIE, IFS I SAY ANYTHING? SHE SAYS IF YOU DONTS LIKE MY KOOKING AND DE WAYS I DO IT, AND WHEN I CALLS YA FOR DINNER, THEN YOU DO YOUR OWN KOOKING?????

Back in the 40's & '50's When someone brought a Chevrolet into the dealership with engine noises the mechanics could identify them instantly.The most frequent was loose connecting rods ,especially on the pre 1948 cars.Then it was a matter of adjusting the rods and mains.(they always did both).The slow,short trip, city driven cars the most common.If they were up to 40,000 miles or so the wrist pins were making noise (not harmful)one or two cylinders low on copmpression and starting to burn oil so most often an overhaul job was done.The oil return holes in the rings and pistons would be plugged up due to the poor oils.If job was started by 8 AM it would be done by 5 AM.The price with normal parts in 1950 was $77.00.The most often required extra parts would be a couple of exhaust valves.The car was returned after 500 miles to have the oil changed,valves readjusted and head retorqued.The head was torqued on new cars before delivery, at 1000 mile inspection plus was to be done with every tune up.The replacement rings used for an overhaul were of the expander type and would last longer han the original one piece cast iron rings (cast irons were eaiser on the cyl. walls ).The overhaul would usually last for the rest of life of the car because very few made it past 100,000 miles in those days.

Yes, Donald..... Unhuh Dear is my favorite expression, But I don't think either of us have missed too many meals from pictures I have seen, or brewskis either, My wife is a fine cook, I can even remember when she used to cook ........instead of popping Chef Schaffler in the Zapper! ( That was when we had four kiddos at home.)
I guess I better change the batterys in the dinner bell, we haven't heard it for a while.

Hey thanks for the noise input. I do have a noise under a load but I need to go listen to it again. I have been out under the knife for a while and am just getting back in shape. I will take a listen again and see what is what. I saw a lot of talk about new engines overheating and am here to say that mine never did. I had mine out on a hill in 98 deg weather and it never got in the red. I have a Filling station honeycomb radiator and a JUNK YARD DOG restored water pump so I know I couldn't go wrong. There you go Skip, a little advertising. I am running a four bladed fan.

Hey Matt! You're my man!!!

Mat, Don't want to get into piston panic but you can listen to it in the pre 1936 engines like Chip said.By holding a long screw driver against the cylinder barrels on the left side of the engine.Because the lower two-thirds are not water cooled on these years the noise is easy to detect ,just hold listening devise agianst each cyl. barrel while it making the noise.Another way to hear a lot of strange noises is to run the engine without a fan.It sounds really scary.The fan blends all engine noises together

Well even if it was 102 deg in Oroville today I was fealing good so I started her up for the first time in about a month. I found my pesky exhaust noise is back. The exaust pipe to the manifold has given me some trouble. Stone cold and warmed up there is no noise except a little valve train chatter. I had the wife race her up a few times while I listened. That will cost me dinner at least. Like I said the noise is when it is pulling at higher RPM's. If I lug it down I don't hear it. I will have to take it for a drive again to discribe it better. Next weekend will have to do. Also it only has 258 miles on the rebuild. I had inserts put in and the center main is modified with a thrust bearing pinned in the block. Egge pistons and balanced. She does 53 on a stock rearend and I could have gone faster but didn't want to push it. I am not sure the noise I hear is even bad. Is the 194 loud at higher RPM's? Also it is from the rear of the engine I think, so It could be a transmission noise even though I don't think so.

Ok, is was a nice 85 in Oroville today so we took her out for a 50 mile drive to and around town. I find that every time I put more miles on it she sounds better. Today was no exception. I listened very close at all speeds and power. The noise I hear is most heard just as you put power to the drive train. At a coast you do not hear it, and at even power you do not hear it. As you add power it starts and gets less as the load increases. It is not a knock although the first time hearing it you may think so. It is much lighter. It is definitely at crankshaft RPM not camshaft RPM. From what you have all said I think it is piston slap. I did hear it a few times when I started it this morning but it was ramdon and went right away. She also had a little more power today because it pulled the last hill at 38 MPH with both the wife and myself. It use to only do 35 MPH. I am going to change the oil again now that it has 300 miles on it and check for metal. She is still a little tight if you try and start it right after turning it off warm. A 30 minute wait is best. Any other ideas?

It is hard to tell as you said, but from what you described, it sure sounds like a piston slap as you mentioned. With the Egge pistons installed, it probably is a good chance that you do have a piston slap, since the input that I have been getting over the past decade or so, from other Chevy owners with similar problems, have all been related to Egge pistons. One fellow even changed out his Egge pistons twice (Egge pistons the second time as well) and still had the same problem. Finally, he put in another brand of piston and his piston slap went away. To be honest, I can't remember if he finally installed new old replacement stock aluminum pistons or new old stock cast iron pistons, but definitely changing the brand of piston solved his problem. Your noise sounds about the same as Donald's noise as well.

HI MATT, SURE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE YOU COME BACK TO SEATTLE AND ATTEND SOME MORE OF OUR CLUB MEETINGS. MATT, I HAVE ABOUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF MILES ON MY ENGINE AS YOU HAVE. WHEN MY ENGINE IS COLD, I GET A NOCKING NOISE IN NUMBER TWO AND NUMBER SIX CYLINDER, NUMBER TWO A LITTLE LESS THAN NUMBER SIX.AFTER THE ENGINE WARMS UP THE NOISE GOES AWAY. PISTON SLAP? I ALSO HAVE EGGE PISTONS AND FROM ALL THE THINGS I HEAR ABOUT THEM, WELL MAYBE WE SHOULD OF HAD ANOTHER BRAND. EARLS MACHINE ALSO BUILT YOUR ENGINE, AND I REMEMBER MARK ASKING ME WHERE I BOUGHT MY PISTONS AND WHEN I TOLD HIM EGGE, HE SAID THAT IS A BIG MISTAKE AND YOU WILL HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THEM. I GUESS HE IS RIGHT. I WILL RUN MY ENGINE WITH THE EGGE PISTONS AND GET MORE MILES ON THE CAR AND SEE HOW IT DOES. GOOD LUCK,DON

HELLO EVERYONE, I HAVE NOT DONE ANY ENGINE WORK YET, SINCE MY OTHER POSTINGS, BUT I HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT ENGINE SLAP. WHEN A ENGINE IS FIRST STARTED AND IT IS COLD, AND YOU HAVE A SLIGHT KNOCK IN A CYLINDER AND YOU TAKE A SCREWDRIVER AND SHORT THE SPARKPLUG OUT FOR THAT CYLINDER AND THE KNOCK GETS LOUDER, AND THEN THE ENGINE WARMS UP AND THE KNOCK GOES AWAY, IS ONE TO ASUME THAT IT IS PISTON SLAP. ALSO ON ALUMINUM PISTONS, WHAT CLEARANCE SHOULD THERE BE BETWEEN THE PISTON AND THE CYLINDER WALL.

Don, all I know is for the 28 with the "New" aluminum pistons it was to be set at a .002 feeler gauge no go and a .001 feeler gauge should fit freely. Seems to me around .0015

Keep in mind that data applies to the '28 piston in '28.

I GUESS WHAT IM ASKING IS,WOULDNT ALUMINUM PISTONS HAVE THE SAME PISTON TO CYLINDER WALL CLEARANCE FOR ALL ENGINES, PERTAINING TO HEAT EXPANSION OF ALUMINUM PISTONS, OR ARE THERE DIFFERENT ALLOYS USED IN THE MAKING OF ALUMINUM PISTONS THAT GIVE THEM DIFFERENT CLEARANCES IN THE CYLINDER WALLS. WHAT IS THE MAXIUM CLEARANCE YOU WOULD WANT BETWEEN ALUMINUM PISTON AND THE CYLINDER WALL. WHEN I HEAR THE COMMENT OF PISTON COLLAPSE, WHAT EXACTLY ARE WE TALKING ABOUT AS TO WHAT EXACTLY HAPPENS. WHAT IS PISTON COLLAPSE??? THANKS

Yeah, The data from the 28 repair manual says that the 28 alloy piston is different from the ordinary alloy pistons because of the special alloy insert. each manufactor would have a different alloy , hence it's own expansion curve.

All aluminum pistons will not have the same clearence.There are many designs of pistons such as Standard T slot.Cam ground out of round,and pistons with steel struts cast in to control expansion. (cam ground out of round are designed to fit tight side to side but be loose front to rear so when cold skirt is tight but will expand front to rear thus HELPING to eleminate cold piston slap)Any of these designs will usually have cold clearence from .001" to.003" specifyed.It is best to follow the piston manufactorers recomendations.It is common to hear piston noise with many pistons but most should dissappear in the first 5 min. of running.Other things being tight in an engine can also cause the pistons to slap.The two most common are wrist pins and connecting rods.(The wrist pins also get looser when piston expands and warms up) so give the engine a chance to "loosen up" before worrying too much.Also it would be my guess that pistons purchased for "old" cars are very low tech so the can be machined and adapted t many applications.

Hi Chev Nut,

Thanks, I could not have covered it any better.

There is a big distinction in Modern Pistons and New Replacement Stock (Pistons newly manufactured for old applications) (Manufacturers such as EGGE, JAHNS, ect fall in this classification).

USE THE CLEARANCE FOR THE PISTON AS SPECIFIED BY THE MANUFACTURER.!!!!!!!!!

thanks chevgene and teacher, so far I have only heard complaints from guys doing older engines with aluminum pistons. the machine shop I deal with uses egge pistons all the time on the engines he rebuilds, but shutters when someome wants to use egge pistons on the older ones. I dont know what the specks are on my aluminum pistons as I have had them for along time and never got involved with them, as they went to the guy who put my engine together. I think the bottom line is that I need to get alot more miles on the engine before any decision is made about it.

So, JunkYardDog, mrmack, and others in the know, what brand of pistons would you (do you) buy to put in your car? I know what brand to not buy. Egge

Thanks, Gator

P.S. Alum. or iron in your cars?

I would not buy by piston Manf. brand , I would have to rely on the trusted vendor to supply the correct pistons, but first I would have to find out what combo would work for the engine Rod, pin and cylinder bore. To know if the cylinders are going to have to be bored or just honed. Then after communicateing all the info to the machine shop and vendor hope that the correct parts are available.

I use new old stock GM cast iron pistons as originally came in the car from the factory.

WELL JUNKYARD DOG, THIS IS A NEW TIME WE ARE IN AND ALUMINUM PISTONS ARE THE PRESENT AND THE FUTURE. YOU CAN STAY WITH CAST IRON PISTONS, AND BE IN THE STAGECOACH ERA OR HOP ON YOUR JET AND BE UP TO DATE WITH THE REST????????????

You mean like you did? And then have piston slap and other problems related to the aluminum pistons? Remember, the name of the game is "restoration", and restoration means to put the car back like it came new from the factory. Aluminum pistons were available then, but Chevrolet Motor Division, for whatever reason, chose not to use them from 1929 thru 1932 and later. If you want to get out of the "stagecoach" era, then you should street rod your car and be totally modern with a 350 V-8, air conditioning and etc. Ya! ha ha! Anyway, I prefer to stay in the "stagecoach" era, because I think it's cool.

Seriously though.....cast iron pistons are easier to find for one thing, and they are stock for another. Over the past 20 years or more I have talked to lots of dudes who went with aluminum pistons, and most of them were not satisified, due to rattles and slaps. At any rate, it's the owner's choice as to what type of pistons to use, and I know that some dudes like the aluminum pistons. I have never had a problem with cast iron pistons so I'm sticking with them, and I have one 216 engine with 120,000 miles on it and cast iron pistons are on the inside, and the car is still going strong! Hey Donald...how many miles did you say that you have on your new engine with the aluminum pistons? 300 or something? And you have piston slap on two cylinders already? Hum....welcome to the modern ages!!! ha ha!

A QUESTION I HAVE IS, WHAT CAR MAKERS TODAY USE CAST IRON PISTONS. I REALLY THINK THAT ALMOST ALL GUYS REBUILDING ENGINES TODAY ARE GOING TO ALUMINUM PISTONS. THE OLD SAYING THAT IT WAS THAT WAY WHEN IT CAME FROM THE FACTORY DOESNT HOLD A CANDLE IN THIS DAY AND AGE. GUYS USING HIGHWAY GEARS, SOLID STATE IGNITION, ALUMINUM PISTONS. REMEMBER, THE JUDGES DO NOT SEE THOSE THINGS IN THEIR JUDGING.

Again....it's the owner's choice what he wants to do with his car, and many dudes do different degrees of restorations on their cars and they do make certain changes that they feel is for the better. To me the fun part of having an old car is to have it and drive it the way it was way back when. Others feel that they want to upgrade their cars some for faster driving due to the traffic in their areas and so forth. Cool! Not a problem. I prefer using cast iron pistons because in past experience they are trouble free and they go tens of thousands of miles. But, to answer your question....at least as far as the 1929-32 engines go....so far, over the past decade, I have talked to more dudes that have installed cast iron pistons in their 1929-32 engines than those that have used aluminum.

If you are totally restoring a car back to original and you are looking at it from an historical point of view, then the old saying "That's the way it came from the factory" does hold a candle. Any deviation from that point is a modification from the original, and the question is to what degree do you want to deviate from the original? Some dudes look at cars as a piece of past history, while others look at them as a piece of art, while still others see them as a form in which they can express themselves in different aspects of modifications and the like. Bottom line... original cars are cool....modifieds are cool and street rods are cool. It's the owner's choice which way he wants to go since it's his car, and that's the way it should be.

Don,The last cars to use cast iron pistons were the 1953 Chevrolet sticks,1952 Pontiac 6 1954 Pontiac 8.These were all engines known for durability.Many cars in the teens and twentys used aluminum pistons.With the old technoligy they were never as durable as iron.With todays high reving engines everything that reciprocates is made as light as possible so things don't pound themselves to death.If a Chevrolet 6 is driven as intended when new cast iron is perfectly good.In the thirtys most states had speedlimits of 40 to 50 MPH. and if you are satisfied with that as a crusing speed castiron is fine.

Don,The last cars to use cast iron pistons were the 1953 Chevrolet sticks,1952 Pontiac 6 1954 Pontiac 8.These were all engines known for durability.Many cars in the teens and twentys used aluminum pistons.With the old technoligy they were never as durable as iron.With todays high reving engines everything that reciprocates is made as light as possible so things don't pound themselves to death.If a Chevrolet 6 is driven as intended when new cast iron is perfectly good.In the thirtys most states had speedlimits of 40 to 50 MPH. and if you are satisfied with that as a crusing speed cast iron is fine. The other factor to consider is how many miles your car will be driven in a year.Most never see 1000 miles a year so in twenty years you will still have a low milage engine.

Gene, I hope in 20 years I am rideing in a Gloryland Chariot!

The ads in '32 "talk" about much higher driving speeds than 40-50 mph with orginal castiron pistons (some ads say 65-70 mph even). So why would the speeds be any lower today with castiron pistons?

What are the major reasons for using aluminum? Does saving a little weight really mean that much to us? Does it prolong the life of the engine? Wasn't the engine designed to use castiron by GM?


I drove a '53 stick to high school and I don't remember doing only 40-50 mph back then.

I want to do what is best for the car, but I need help.

I have followed a 32 or two and they never had any trouble driveing a good steady 55 or 60 mph, back in 1955 when I was in high school, and drove a 30 model A Ford I would race the school bus ( a 53 chevy with a 235) and some days I won some days not, a friend with a 32 Chevy coupe could pass both me and the bus, seems top end was above 80mph and it was a high mileage car running on drip gas. I think now days we just don't want to take the old cars up to that top end speed.

P. S.
My 53 stick drives nice and comfortable at 60 mph, I got more speeding tickets in my 51 chevy when the speed limit was 60mph than I have in anything since.

WELL NOW, MACKIE WACKIE, YOU SAY YOU ARE A SPEEDER? YOU KNOW OUT IN YOUR NECK OF THE WOODS, THE COUNTY MOUNTIE LOOKS FOR DUDES LIKE YOU. YES YES YES. I CAN SEE IT NOW IN MY DREAMS. CHIPPER DIPPER DRESSED UP IN A COUNTIE MOUNTIE UNIFORM, DRIVING HIS CHEVY WITH THE WINDOW DOWN, STICKING HIS HEAD OUT THE WINDOW AND BLOWING THAT BEAT UP BUGLE, TRYING TO PULL YOU OVER?? WOW THAT WAS SOME DREAM???????

The ads mentioned top speed not highway crusing speed.Most Chevrolet engines can be driven at top speed for short distinces as I have done over the years and still do,witout having problems.Also a '53 engine is capable of maintaining much higher speeds than a '32.With todays interstates ,Holding a '32 at 60 MPH with a 4.11 rear end for hours at a time is rather iffy.I have done it with my '34 with aluminum pistons because the put less load on the rod bearings but the pre '35 system for oiling the rods this is about the limit or beyond(the engine is turning close to 3000 RPM>)Also I would not want to give anyone the wrong information and see them ruin their engine.The 1934 sales catalog states "Try it at 80 MPH for a mile along any road"and I think that they were trying t tell you something

Well said.Piston speed of over 2500 feet per seconed was considered excessive.Compared to other makes Chevrolet had a shorter stroke than most so the piston travel wasn't critical as much as bottom end lubrication was.If the oiling system was performing as designed,bearings properly adjusted. and babbit bearing surface good they will hold together well.Todays better oils are another big help.....But just look back at all the changes and improvements made in the oiling system between 1929 and 1936 that they made.These were all done because this was always the weak point in that engine if it was driven too fast.And the heavy pistons didn't help.

Would using Al pistons and changing the rear from a 4.11 to the now available 3.7 (?) make the '32 car more "friendly" on today's roads?
I would like to drive to car shows, etc without getting "pushed" off the road.
I think the more I can use the car for fun, the better the car will be, just letting it sit or putting it on a trailer isn't what I want and I don't think it is that good for the car's overall 'health'.

There are 3.50 gears being produced for 1930-32 cars.They will slow engine enough so 60 MPH will be a safe engine speed with either piston.(is it safe to drive a car that old any faster?)In level country like Florida they should be ideal.A VCCA member sells them and they are advertised in the G&D.

Good deal,

If I wasn't goimg to drive any faster than 30mph I might just turn some pistons out of a cedar post, Humm! and nail a piece of 1/4 " plate to the top to keep it from burning!

I have looked in the copies of G&D that I have and I can't find the person who sells 3.5 rears for '32 chevys.
Please help with the info. Thanks

They were available thru Larry Jackson,4615 Karnes Rd.,Santa Maria,Ca.93455 ........... ....805-937-8171.....ljacksonpronet............Price was $759.00 So save your penneys.If you think thats is expensive price a set for a moder car.Ad was in May 2001 G&D

Thanks for the infor Chev Nut.

My other question was about the al pistons, would they make the engine last longer or not work as hard when using cast iron?

Good cast iron pistons will last longer than bad aluminum.If you can find a good aluminum and its fit properly no problem. The aluminum pistons will be easier on the rod bearings for high speed driving ,thats bearing load wise not in terms of lubrication.The lighter alum. pistons also allow the engine to wind up faster.Less weight to get moving.