I have front clip and rear fenders off of my 1940 town sedan. I am pretty sure from factory the underside of rear fenders was painted body color. The front is not so easy to discern. How did cars roll off the line? undersides of everything painted body color, or not? any exceptions? TGILDW (thank God its Labor Day weekend) Chevy40

Hey chevy40,

Have fun on the long weekend. They are all long for me since I retired! My 40 had been undercoated, so I don't know what color the underside was.

The factory painted the under sides of the fenders black.The body was painted color before the fenders were installed so the areas (of the body) where the fenders cover the body were body color.An enamel was used under the fenders as it was less expensive and resisted chippping better than lacquer.

Thanks for the responses! I think I'll use some semi-gloss black for underside paint. Of course enamel! So would rear fender mounting washers and bolts have remained unpainted? Were they galvanized or painted before assy? Thanks for your input Happy Labor day Chevy40

Semi-gloss would look more original also.The fender bolts and washers were not painted.They were more like a gray or black oxide finish.

gene,

those black oxide fasteners would have rusted pretty quickly then?..


epi

Is stainless acceptable, or are points deducted?

Points deducted? Hey, if it's okay to have the wrong year engine with no points deducted, why would points be deducted for such a trivial thing as stainless steel fasteners??

Hey JunkYardDog,

Good point!

Have a safe Labor Day Weekend.

BigBob...

There is something about this engine subject I don't understand. I have read in the chat room several times there is no deduction for the wrong engine. the latest Judging Form I have from 2003 states as follows:ENGINE COMPARTMENT, MANDITORY DEDUCTIONS, Incorrect Engine 100. What don't I understand about this? Is it different out west? Are there two different Judging Forms?

See you down the Back Roads

There is a 100 point deduction for the wrong engine.As an example a 1954 235 engine in a 1941 car.But would be no deduction if it was a 1948 216 engine in the 1941 car as it is still in the "216 family".This is the way I undersatnd it but do not agree with it.

As far as the stainless bolts are concerned...I doubt if most judges would look and if they did wouldn't know the difference.....and if in doubt just paint them black

Chev Nut is correct. As long as the engine has the correct cubic inches as the car came with from the factory, even though the engine is the wrong year, no points are deducted. So, for example, if you have the wrong tire valve stem for the year points will be deducted. However, if your engine is incorrect for the year but it does have the correct cubic inches, no points will be deducted. Like Chev Nut, I don't agree with this "new concept" that came about in mid-2003 either.

As far as the fasteners go, follow Chev Nut's suggestion, because he has that one nailed down too.

I remember our younger son had an early Chevrolet van of somewhere in the 60's with a 194 CID engine. Does this rule mean that engine could be used in 1929 - 1932 cars? I think that makes at least three of us that don't agree. Does that mean we agree to disagree?

Thanks for clearing this up for me.

See you down the Back Roads.

Hey Chevgene,

I hope you know that I have a sign in my shop that says:

"Chevgene's 1st Rule - "When in doubt, Paint it Black!!"

And, that's a GOOD "rule."

RE the engine: don't let me be judging your '41 and realize there's a '48 engine in there and expect to get off with NO deduction.

The idea of no deduction for the 'wrong' year engine but still the correct cubic inch 'size' engine under the hood is total BULL - O - KNEE!!!

I can't believe "you all" are reading that correctly.......

Bill.

I always liked the sign my Dad had inhis basement.
"I never made a mistake in my life. I thought I did once but I was wrong."

Back Roads

Hey Billy Boy, yep,that's the way it is. You can go back to an old issue of your G&D and read all about it if you wish. At any rate, I like your idea of deducting points anyway even if the engine has the correct cubic inches, but it is the wrong year.

Hey Back Roads,

Good One!

From my conversations with Steve Scott I am under the impression that when the proper info is compiled in one "book" this will be changed.The first steps have taken place and may be a year or two before is ready.Would be important that the same info is used and is available for the VCCA Regions all over the country.

The older 4 and 6 cyl. engines are rather easy to verify.Its the later V8 (and V6) engines that could be a problem as an example....Also some 307 and 327 encines have the same casting number for several years....as well as 283's.

Perhaps Steve will see this and comment.

If this BS is true - and you guys seem to be sure it is - then what the heck is the matter with replacing the original 235 in a '55 with a 'fairly close' numbered 265?????

Now really, what the heck is "worse???"

The right size but the wrong year.....

Or the right year but the wrong size????

Or how about replacing a '57 265 with a '57 283???

Bill.

Chev Nut: That is great, and I hope that the system does get changed. I do understand that on some of the later V-8 and V-6 engines it is tough to locate and to decipher some of the numbers. However, we have a lot of the casting and serial number information now for the earlier cars, so there is no need to let an incorrect year engine slide on those vehicles during the judging process when you definitely know that the engine is incorrect and the specific documentation is already available to back it up.

Whadda ya wanna bet some 'big shot' Director or some such thing with the wrong engine in his car got a "motion" passed to allow this so he could still "look good" - even tho the car had the wrong engine in it?????

Bill.

Hey 42bill,

I hope none of that goes on.

42 bill-No, I am sure that is not the reason...Steve and the judging committee are very fair and honest.

'57 265 and 283 have the same casting numbers,heads are the same as a 2 barrel 283 as is the intake....only the bore is different by 1/8"..The stamped numbers identifing the engine are different but could easily be changed.

moved my question to the '55-'57 category.

Gene:

I have TOTAL respect for Steve. I don't feel there's any way he would have any complicity in such a thing.

I'm saying I suspect someone sorta "slipped in" that type of motion for his own "good."

I've found that most things like this that make ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE come about because somebody has an "agenda."

Bill.

I'd appreciate it if someone would address the 'other' question in my recent post....

Do the 'new' judging rules allow a 1955 Chev owner to replace the original 235 with a '55 265??? And still be considered 'correct??'

Bill.

No! The engine must have the same number of cylinders that the car came with from the factory, so a six-cylinder engine can only be replaced by a six-cylinder engine with the same cubic inches as original. Therefore, it is okay to put a 1953 235 in a 1955 but ya can't put in a 1955 265 V-8 in a 1955 that came with a 235. That's how I understand the new rule anyway.

Gee isn't that "interesting."

It's "ok" to put in the wrong year engine but it's not "ok" to put in a right year engine.

This is really a stupid 'rule.' How did it ever become "ok" to have anything in a judged car other than an "original" type engine?? In other words, the correct year and correct displacement.

It would seem we have some "politicians" in this club!?!?!?!?!

Bill.

How about a 41 216 for a 41 235 in a 3/4 ton truck?? .
I was asked to judge mechanical at VCCA show many years ago. I noticed a 48 engine in a 37 Sedan belonging to a national VCCA officer. It had correct valve cover, Manifold, Distributor, but wrong Generator. I asked the chief judge and deducted the points. .
After threatening to kick our region out of the VCCA, it was desided that the 48 was a "replacement" for the 37 engine, and no deductions. .
Now the 37 truck with the 38 engine, that trailered an unfinished coupe pickup to the show, I parked next to the CPPU for display only. I was ordered to park out on the street for not having the original engine. .
I joined the ATHS that has no judging and a lot friendlier group of national officers. .

Lou,

Great story. If the idea is to show how absolutely stupid some of the folks in the Chevy Club really are.

The more I hear, the more I think..... well heck, I can't say that and not "pay" for it.

As a nearly 30 year member, I can only say I'm really sorry you had to experience the two "parts" of the situation you related. Frankly, it's embarrassing to a long time member like me that we even have people like that in the club.

Now, does anyone doubt why I posted what I did about this stupid idea that we now "allow" (as an example) a '48 216 in a '41 car and call it a "correct motor" - i.e. NO point deduction.

BULL - O - KNEE. There's no doubt in my mind that came about to 'favor' somebody who was in a 'situation' similar to the example I gave.

TERRIBLE!!! Absolutely Terrible!!!

Bill.

I've met a lot of nice people in the VCCA. Unfortunately there are a few jerks who degrade the club. They've been National Officers.
When I first joined, the G&D was stapled xeroxs with Larry Smith's return address on them. I love the prices in the ads (now). Pre-war Chevys only. Would you like me to email some pictures of early G&Ds?

Ya, the old "stapled" G&D's were really cool and I have a bunch of them that I look at from time to time. Brings back a lot of memories about the early days of the club.....and, when it was "okay" to have the correct year engine and when it was not "okay" to have the wrong year engine. Man, we have made a lot of progress in the wrong direction after 44 years haven't we?

Yeah , and it was OK to drive a Chevrolet that WAS original, dripped oil, and didn't cost as much as a new set of Repo sill plates!

Folks:

I've been reading this thread with special interest because what I've been trying to do with my '41 is to have a car that runs well, looks good and is fun to shows and cruises. I'm not interested in ending up with a "perfect" car that I have to constantly worry about, or worse yet, trailer.
By the way, my '41 drips oil. It's the original 216 with 45,600 miles. Original interior too, but that has to go.

Mario

Folks:

I've been reading this thread with special interest because what I've been trying to do with my '41 is to have a car that runs well, looks good and is fun to shows and cruises. I'm not interested in ending up with a "perfect" car that I have to constantly worry about, or worse yet, trailer.
By the way, my '41 drips oil. It's the original 216 with 45,600 miles. Original interior too, but that has to go.

Mario

So Mario, that will be ok, But, if you ever get the bug to do or just get inclined to know a lot more, or if you beome curious....HERE IT IS!!!!!
We dance to all kinds of music around here!