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#302990 - 03/09/14 02:19 PM Re: old photo corner... **** [Re: ChevyGuru]
brewster Offline




Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Ontario,Canada
It looks like Arizona to me. I pinched it off of Powerglide Magazine's facebook page...
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#303037 - 03/10/14 07:04 AM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
donsbigtrucks Offline

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1950s Lew-Ellens Drive-In - Salinas, California!

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#303197 - 03/11/14 06:29 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: donsbigtrucks]
brewster Offline




Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Ontario,Canada
A new 1916 Touring, Alberta, Canada...

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#303200 - 03/11/14 06:36 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
brewster Offline




Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Ontario,Canada
A 1922 490 Utility coupe...

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#303203 - 03/11/14 06:59 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
brewster Offline




Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Ontario,Canada
"These are post January 1917 streamline models and these 1917 490's still had upright windshields - but the 490 roadster with the same streamline cowl body was not available until the early spring time - since it was first available in March 1917. It must have been taken in the spring of 1917 [mud and coats] - when it was difficult to get railroad cars - the photo was taken in front of Bunnell Auto Sales Co. the Chevrolet Distributor in Toledo, Ohio. One of the dealers in the photo was Harry H. Weaver, the New Lebanon Chevrolet direct dealer in this small town about 10 miles west of Dayton."

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#303593 - 03/15/14 06:28 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
brewster Offline




Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Ontario,Canada
A great find tonight! A nice clear shot of a 1913 Chevrolet type C Classic Six from the collection of Charlie Beesley, as featured on the Hemming's magazine website…

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#303600 - 03/15/14 07:38 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
Gunsmoke Offline

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Registered: 04/29/09
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Great photo. One question, is that car very high, or are the people very short?

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#303601 - 03/15/14 07:45 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: Gunsmoke]
ChevyGuru Offline

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Registered: 01/27/02
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Loc: Medina, Ohio, USA
GREAT early photos! And the Type C Classic Six is clearly brand new - look at that shine on the radiator, and the 1913 Ohio tag. Wow, great stuff!

And yes - the Classic Six is a BIG car - here is a photo of me standing beside the only complete survivor at the Sloan Museum, and I am just over 6' tall, so you can see what a big car it is.
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#303603 - 03/15/14 08:00 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: ChevyGuru]
brewster Offline




Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Ontario,Canada
I wondered if that cord running off the front fender is a trigger to the camera? An early "Selfie"??!!


Edited by brewster (03/18/14 06:56 AM)
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#303808 - 03/18/14 05:42 AM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
41specialdeluxe Offline



Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 4593
Loc: NC usa
Brewster,

Very nice photographs and interesting commentary. Especially about the cord. I hadn't noticed before it was point out.

Three things:

a. Where on the front end of the 1913 Type C Classic Six was the logo?

b. Flipping from one photo to another (Sloan/Ohio) there seems to be a difference in the size of the cowl lights. Maybe that was merely owing to the photography, but still....

c. In the Sloan picture there are two items of interest. One is a handsome work of art. Agrin

Thanks for posting.

Charlie computer

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#303812 - 03/18/14 06:03 AM Re: old photo corner... [Re: 41specialdeluxe]
Gunsmoke Offline

1500

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 1966
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
While we are at it, I noticed the rad-filler neck also appears different, being completely on top on the early photo, but built into the slope on the Sloan car (Rad also appears a bit more rounded on lead edge for early car). From the early photo, it appears the cowl lights may be set into the cowl rather than free-standing, thereby avoiding interference with hood opening. I'm assuming the Sloan people likely had to do a lot of guessing in putting this survivor together, and its possible in these early runs that details changed regularly as manufacturing processes identified problems or easier ways to do things. These were still pioneer days for car companies in America.


Edited by Gunsmoke (03/18/14 06:04 AM)

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#303816 - 03/18/14 07:00 AM Re: old photo corner... [Re: Gunsmoke]
brewster Offline




Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Ontario,Canada
I had noticed the cowl lights being different as well. It made me wonder if this car was a later build. The plate does seem to limit it to being 1913, but it does seem to show differences from the other pictures we've seen before. Notice it also has a crank hole cover. I've yet to see one with the "Chevrolet" script on the front...




Edited by brewster (03/18/14 07:13 AM)
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#303838 - 03/18/14 10:40 AM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
Gunsmoke Offline

1500

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 1966
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
There are a lot of interesting issues with this car. Besides the different rad shape/neck, and cowl lights (some pics of classic six's have no cowl lights), I note it is RHD, which I assume would be strange in Ohio in summer of 1913. Was GM building cars in Britain/Australia at the time and could this have been an import? If so, that might explain the slight variations.

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#303848 - 03/18/14 01:22 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
ChevyGuru Offline

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Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 1573
Loc: Medina, Ohio, USA
Some very interesting comments and observations. Yes, the cowl lights are very different. The "old Ohio" photo shows them flush mounted or recessed into the firewall; and the "current photo" (with me at the Sloan) shows them mounted to it, as is much more commonly seen.

The difference is dependent on whether they are electric lights or gas lights. None of the surviving literature I have seen talks about the option of electric lighting. But there is one photo I have that is allegedly a "prototype" Model C that shows the same flush mounted cowl lights, as seen below. (I hesitate to put up this photo because I am not certain what we are seeing, it is poorly identified. It would seem to be an early example, it also has a double belt line on the body not seen in the production version. But why would the earlier version have electric lights? Changed back to gas in production to save money? Don't know. )


There are also apparently two different firewall / dash board configurations. One is a simple vertical board (probably the earlier version as seen above). The only sales brochure seems to be a pretty early one, never revised, which would probably have been printed in very early 1913. Remember, this car was first built as a 1913 model with production of literally just a handful (less than 10) beginning in December 1912.

Rather than an electric starter, it featured an "England" brand of compressed air starter, later discontinued.

The later version dash / firewall had the "notched" design, as seen also on the contemporaneous "Little Six" touring, and also on the very earliest production of the first few hundred Model H's (see March G&D article on Model H).

Another early photo is the commonly seen (and so frequently mis-labeled) photo of Louis Chevrolet driving what is certainly a prototype pre-production model; which is noteworthy because it also has the flat firewall/dash - and features square gas cowl lights.



By the time we get to the Sales Brochure production model, the cowl has evolved into the notched design, and the cowl lights are the gas variety, as seen in most every photo available. This is the front cover of the sales brochure -



And inside the brochure is a better drawing/photo, with the same configuration -


It is reasonable to assume the "vintage Ohio photo" shows the typical production model, with electric lights possibly added as a late accessory not mentioned in the catalog, or even possibly added by the owner.

The oldest car, car # 93, the only other (incomplete) example known, is the Reynolds-Alberta museum car in Westaskiwin AB, and it clearly shows stalks for mounting gas style cowl lights. It already has the notched style dash.



Remember, the car was only sold as 1913 and 1914 models, with virtually no changes - and only just over 400 units of this model were ever built. The flat dash is probably the earliest version.

With respect to the restoration of the Sloan car, there was no guess work needed - it was in very good survivor condition when acquired by the Sloan Museum. It was re-painted and restored by Chevrolet Division in the early 1960's, for the Museum. Prior to that, it was sold new by a large, early Dallas Chevrolet dealer, who later got it back from the original owner in the 1930's, still in very good shape. They displayed it until they sold it to the Sloan in the 1960's - so it is just a 3 owner car, and was never in bad shape. (I was incorrect in my article in the G&D where I said it was owned by GM - it is owned by the Sloan Museum.)

Can't explain the Right Hand Drive in the old photo - good observation. Chevrolet built for export very early, as in the Model H for 1914, but I never saw a reference to the Model C here being built for export. No reason to imagine it wouldn't have been, though. But the Ohio license is a conundrum with RHD. No answer. But we do know the only production location for the Model C is Michigan, and it would have been built for export - not built overseas.

They never put the "Chevrolet" script on the front of the car on the Model C. It only appears on the inside dash, the hubcaps, and the foot pedal plate. And the Model C never wore the Bowtie anywhere on it, first was the Model H.

I believe the radiators are probably the same.

Probably more than you wanted to know....I get carried away.
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#303854 - 03/18/14 02:01 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: ChevyGuru]
Gunsmoke Offline

1500

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 1966
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Not too much Guru, I would enjoy even more of this fascinating history of the first of our cars.

The more I examine the Ohio photo, I become convinced this is not the same car as the Sloan. Among other notable differences (besides rad/neck, RHD and cowl lights), the tops of the fenders clearly rise well above the hood hinge line while for the rest, the top of fender is at or below hinge line. More critical, the Ohio car seems to show a cowl of considerable depth going back fairly flat to the vertical windshield, not a feature in any of the other pictures, those of which have cowls that slope sharply upward. Due to the unexplainable RHD, I'm inclined to think this is a "poser", likely an imported car with features very similar to our ancestor!

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#303861 - 03/18/14 04:27 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: Gunsmoke]
brewster Offline




Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Ontario,Canada
The reynolds car has had the cowl lights removed. The first picture in my post above (above Teddy) is that same car in the 1950's. You can see it had the rounded non flush lights. I thought the Ohio car may be left hand drive, just an illusion in the photo. I doubt Chevrolet went to any trouble to export to anywhere other than Canada at that time for 400 units.

Does that brochure contain the other half of the car?


Edited by brewster (03/18/14 04:28 PM)
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#303864 - 03/18/14 05:44 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
ChevyGuru Offline

1500

Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 1573
Loc: Medina, Ohio, USA
It does! - below

(and I recognized your early photo of the Reynolds car. You had several of it as I recall, being driven around back in the 50's.)

AND - I think Gunsmoke might be onto something, about that being a "poser"...

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#303879 - 03/18/14 08:05 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: ChevyGuru]
brewster Offline




Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Ontario,Canada
To answer the "poser" comment…

I think the camera is sitting about 2 feet off the ground, which gives the impression the fenders are higher than they really are. It seems to be below the line of the guys belts in the picture, and none of the other photos are from that height. The photo with Teddy is the closest to having the fenders that high, but you can see by the fellow in the foreground that the camera is well above his waist. I'm not sure if the low angle of the camera is also distorting the rad neck fill, as there is a lot of reflection from that nice new shine that may be hiding some of the angles in the rad shell. If you look at the rad cap and the hubcaps you can see that they are the same distinctive shape as the ones on the Teddy car, and the brochure. It looks like the rad cap for the Reynolds car has been replaced. The cowl does seem a little funny, which would have me believe it's an earlier car. If they had the curved cowl figured out by the Reynolds car at #93, then maybe this is really one of the first Chevrolets… or maybe they butchered the cowl switching it to RHD, if that's what it is.


Edited by brewster (03/18/14 08:09 PM)
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#303902 - 03/19/14 05:57 AM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
Gunsmoke Offline

1500

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 1966
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
If we only had an insider with the Ohio DMV who could go back in the records of 1913 and plug in the license plate #, we would have an answer for sure. The details from the firewall back including RHD are still puzzling. I looked yesterday through many early British cars of the period and found nothing similar. Any Ohioans reading this?

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#304022 - 03/20/14 06:33 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: Gunsmoke]
41specialdeluxe Offline



Registered: 09/14/09
Posts: 4593
Loc: NC usa
Never mind asking the Ohioans anything. They visited Washington, DC and strolled in and out and all around the Lincoln Memorial for about a century without noticing the date on one side of it was the wrong one for the day that Ohio came into the union. Somewhat true but I'm just kidding. They are really sharp folks and the state is full of old car enthusiasts. dance Agrin


I think the post by Brewster of the 1913 Model C, Classic Six showing the Ohio plate is a fake. ref

I think the car has been superimposed and the license plate changed, the couples were standing next to a 1939 Roadster (Holden Body). the tree is obviously a coolabah and the pond sure looks like it may be a billabong. Yep! All that is missing is the jumbuck(sp) (whatever). The matilda is in the backseat or maybe one of the girl's name. Who knows? Don't make no difference to my theory.

This is something that is right down those wiley down-under's alley. Pulling the wool over our eyes.

I'll wager that Jack from Sydney australia sent this to Brewster canada and they are in on it together. newzealandToo! Notice how the down-under's haven't joined in with any comment about the car. None at all. That is only more proof that we patriot have done been had. Big time!

Charlie computer

BTW: Prove me wrong. Seems to me that this is the only explanation for that car.

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#304026 - 03/20/14 06:53 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: 41specialdeluxe]
Gunsmoke Offline

1500

Registered: 04/29/09
Posts: 1966
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
You may be onto something! My early ancestors (from 1785-1800)fled to Canada as British Empire Loyalists from Mass., Penn., Vermont, and New Hampshire following the American Revolution, and then some of them returned from Nova Scotia during the war of 1812 to burn down Washington. So you can fool with those Aussies, but don't mess with us Canucks eh!

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#304064 - 03/21/14 06:02 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: ChevyGuru]
m006840 Online



Registered: 11/30/02
Posts: 4390
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A couple of the photos above appear in a book titled Chevrolet: The Coming of age, by Ray Miller and states the first PRODUCTION Chevrolet was built in November of 1911. The photo with the revised beltline and electric cowl lamps was listed as a second or third preproduction prototype built in 1911. There is a photo of the first production car and it has the round cowl lamps that are pedestal mounted. The photo is listed as being from the GMI Alumni Foundation's Collection. It also listed the total production of the Classic Six as 2999. I have no idea of the accuracy of the book, but it does make interesting reading and covers the years 1911-1942.
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#304068 - 03/21/14 07:34 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: m006840]
ChevyGuru Offline

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Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 1573
Loc: Medina, Ohio, USA
All the dates and production figures are totally wrong. Most of the early photos are also incorrectly identified, at least with respect to their dates.

These same errors appear in George Dammann's "60 Years of Chevrolet" (some, but not all, of them are corrected in his later "75 Years of Chevrolet") - and most all other published sources also, because they all went to Dammann's book to get the wrong information. It was published all completely wrong again just a couple of weeks ago in "Old Cars Weekly" little piece about the Model C.

First "production" Model C's were built in December 1912, as 1913 models. We estimate that 5 were built in December, and then increasing to less than a dozen a month, finally reaching about 25 a month by June of 1913. TOTAL production of the Model C was 402 units, ending in May 1914.

There is no such thing as ANY 1911 production. Then, ONLY LITTLES were sold as 1912 models - that's the car which had a production run of 2,999. That production began (slowly) in April of 1912. This LITTLE production run was confused with being the "first Chevrolet" (i.e. the Model C) decades ago; and appears all over the internet and in published sources incorrectly attributed to being the Model C.

It is possible/probable that the ONE early prototype C with Louis Chevrolet driving and the square gas cowl lights was built by late 1911. The other prototype with electric lights was certainly well into 1912, probably quite late in 1912.

See bottom of Page 22 continuing onto Page 23 of the March G&D for more detail.
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#304074 - 03/21/14 08:32 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: ChevyGuru]
brewster Offline




Registered: 11/05/07
Posts: 3266
Loc: Ontario,Canada
Thank you VCCA members and Chevy fans!!! carbana

Tonight I am closing the "Old Photo Corner" to additional posts. Since August the 8th 2010 we've rolled up 625 posts and 218960 views. It has been a pleasure discussing, viewing, sharing and reminiscing with all of you so far. Thank you to those of you that have also taken the time to add to the posts with your comments, and especially those that have taken the time to post old photos. Many of the pictures that I post I "steal" from other sites on the internet (sorry H.A.M.B.!!), and I worry a bit that those of you that frequent those sites as well are not getting "fresh" material. Nothing pleases me more than checking out this thread and seeing that someone has posted a picture from their own personal collection, or their family's album. I think it's great that they get shared here first!

Our reason for taking a break is to help preserve this thread so we can all continue to enjoy enjoy it for a while to come. If any links ever break, we would hate to lose all of the pages, so we have decided it is better to isolate the thread after 25 pages.

So take a few minutes, run to the lobby for some snacks… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9QAPch2o6Q ...then meet us back for the continuation of the thread in Old Photo Corner II





Edited by brewster (03/22/14 05:38 AM)
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#304076 - 03/21/14 08:45 PM Re: old photo corner... [Re: brewster]
Bill Barker Offline

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See you all at the new thread ....

This one is now locked.
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