Hi all. My 1931 2dr Coach is giving me fits! I recently completed a LOT of work to the car,none of it electrical, and was finally ready to go for a cruise. After several "test fires" in the garage, I put the car back on the ground and headed out. I made it all of 100 feet before the car died just as I shifted into 2nd gear. Pushed it back into the garage, changed the coil and it fired right back up. However it only ran for 5 minutes before it died again. Any ideas??
As always, thanks in advance for your help!
C.J.

You will need to give us a bit more information. When it quits does it just stop or spit and sputter? Does it act like you are shutting off the ignition switch? Any other symptoms? Noises? Sounds? What happens when you turn off the ignition switch and then immediately try to start it?

From what you report I'm going to say your problem most likely is Fuel related. That said, I think you have a restriction somewhere in the Fuel Delivery System. Seeing as the car ran fine on blocks but started showing failure after being moved about I'd start at the Gas Tank and look into it with a Flashlight. You will see the Pick Up and determine if it is clear. You can disconnect the Fuel Line and see if Gas flows out of the Tank freely. Your Fuel Pump Diaphragm may be weak so why not replace it? If the car will start, jiggle all the wires, Switch, Coil and Distributor. When it quits, immediately give a little squirt of Starting Fluid and see if it fires right up. Retard the Spark completely before doing this. If it does fire right up I'd be looking for a Fuel Problem. Al W. Please Post what happens.

Chip, it shut of like you turned of the key, dies instantly. Doesn't sound like a fuel problem, but I could be wrong Al. It has juice to the coil with the key on. As I'm by myself today, I haven't been able to crank it over and check for spark anywhere else.

My guess is also ignition.

First check all wiring between battery positive post and ignition switch and then to coil. Connections solid, tight, wire in good condition? If so go to step 2 below.

Remove distributor cap, remove the center wire from cap and put the end of it ~ 1/2" from ground (like bolt head in engine), turn on ignition switch, open and close the points. Do you get a spark that "snaps" between wire and ground? Now keep points apart and short between arms with screwdriver. Is the spark the same or makes louder sound?

If both give weak spark that does not jump a 1/2" gap then check the condenser. Is the outside case grounded? Is the ground solid? Are connections tight? If that is okay then check the coil. Are all wires tight? If that all looks okay then check voltage at the coil. Is it 6.6 volts or more? If so consider changing the condenser first and coil second.

All of this can be done by one person.

Let us know what you find.

If none of the above works, then check your electrolock. It could be grounding out and that would cause the engine to die like the ignition was being turned off.

I had a similar problem with my 1930 tourer, it turned out to be the die cast choke mushroom which was starting to break up where the fork holds it in position and it was just holding it in place until it would get sucked up by the vaccum of the engine and choke the engine completely as if the ignition was turned off and then it would fall back in to place until there was enough vaccum to suck it back up again. I checked all of the ignition and rebuilt the fuel pump before I diagnosed it. It would be worth a look.

So you don't get confused, chevy6 is talking about the pot metal choke cone inside of the carburetor.

This place is so great! Al w.

C.J.
Intermittent problems are the hardest to solve, but It is just a process of elimination. Start with what you think is most likely and proceed down the line until you find it. With intermittent stuff sometimes you have to check several times.
Good luck and let us know what you find.

Sorry guys, had to go out tonight. I will be checking out all options starting tomorrow night, and I will post all results as they happen. This forum is THE BEST! Thanks to everybody for the advice. You guys ROCK!

C.J.

OK. So the wiring all looks good. I have approx. 6.6 volts across the coil. Holding the coil wire a 1/2" from ground and snapping the points shut produces a crisp, blue, snappy spark. It doesn't appear to be as strong at the points but I'm not sure if I'm doing that procedure correctly. It seems to want to spark between the arm of the points and the rotor gear that separates the points. If thats what is supposed to be happening, the spark is significantly weaker at that point. Pardon my ignorance on the subject, it's been 23 years since I've played with a points ignition, and I was only 14 then!
Thanks again for all the advice so far.
C.J.

If a spark jumps between the moveable point arm and distributor cam the rubbing block on the points is gone. You will need to replace the points with a new set.

Thanks Chip. I will get new points tomorrow. Luckily, I work at a parts store so I won't have to go far to get them! I am going to replace the condenser as well while I'm at it. I searched my books today but couldn't seem to find a suitable replacement. Does anybody have a part number for a replacement condenser?

Use the condenser for a '54 Chevy. Most books still list them. Others go back to '34. Any of those will work well.

DR-70.

Thanks again guys. Hopefully I'll have more news tomorrow.

Hey Dog, this is the condenser that I found today at work. I questioned how well the "U" shaped connector would fit inside the electrolock end cap? I'm assuming as long as you've been at this that it's not a problem. And no, I;m not calling you old...just experienced!

Do not use the "U" shaped connector. Cut it off and solder on a #10 stud eyelet connector. Also, put shrink tubing on the base of the eyelet connector and the wire so that it will not make contact with the side of the elongated slot in the bottom of the metal terminal cup.

Try draining all the fuel and introducing new. If the car sat for months in an old tank watch out. Look at the color of the fuel and take a smell. If its at all orange, or smells like old gas, you might have found the problem.

It seems I'm coming up with as many questions as answers with this deal. So,next question: What is a suitable insulator to put between the points and the distributor housing? It appears the lasy owner used a piece of plastic. Any suggestions?

Any insulating material, like plastic, will work. The original insulator was a rectangle shaped heavy paper. I believe that the Filling Station sells the insulator if you don't want to make one.

The two heavy paper insulators used at that location are also illustrated in the 1929-32 Chevrolet parts book. If you don't have a 1929-32 Chevrolet parts book you can get one from the Filling Station as well.

Thanks Dog. One more question, then hopefully I'll be done bothering you guys for a bit.
When tightening the nut on the end of the electrolock,through the distributor, is there a trick to keep the stud from spinning? Or is it not supposed to be spinning?
Thanks again.
C.J.

If you put pressure on the shaft by pushing down on the spring/contact for the points it will retard the spinning. Also make sure that the threads on the stud are clean without burrs.

Yes, the terminal stud will spin due to the design of the terminal stud connection in the end of the electrolock.

Thanks again for all the advice. I'll be working on it over the weekend and hopefully will have some good news to report soon.

You'll get it. We haven't failed to get one running yet. Sometimes it takes a while. The distance and lack of hands on and ears perked complicates the process.

I recently had the same problem with my 30 model. After sitting for a couple of weeks the truck refused to start, pulled the dist. cap, reset the points and the truck started and ran for a couple of minutes and the engine died. I pulled the fuel line loose at the carb, spun the engine and had fuel at the line, hooked the line up, spun the engine and it ran for about sixty seconds and died. Now I am getting frustrated, Changed the points and coil, spun the engine, it ran for a couple of minutes and died again. I started pulling the carb and noticed there was no fuel when I disconnected the fuel line. I pulled the fuel pump and found the diaphragm was in bad condition.I put a new repair kit in the fuel pump and now it runs ok, evidently the pump was only functioning part of the time.

OK guys. After further review, I decided to re-wire everything from the ignition switch out! Figuring if I eliminate ALL the potential problems, maybe it will run. After all this, IT FIRED UP! I don't have an exact reason why it didn't run before, but it runs now. HOWEVER, I've encountered another problem. This one should be easier to figure out though. Apparently I misplaced a wire in the proccess. The coil is "hot" all the time. I must have put a wire on the ignition switch in the wrong place. If somebody could verify where the wires are supposed to go, maybe I can wrap this up! I changed both leads to the coil, and the one from the starter to the amp guage. I also changed some connecting wires from the amp guage to the switch. We're lamost there...well mostly you guys are :). Thanks again!
C.J.

If the coil is hot all the time it sounds like you connected to the battery side of the ignition switch. Use a test light and find the terminal on the switch that is turned on and off by the switch and connect the coil there.

The coil wires must be attached to the electrolock in specific locations.

The electrolock terminals are marked "Batt", Coil/Gauge and "Coil".

The positive side of the coil is attached to the "Coil/Gauge" terminal on the electrolock. The negative side of the coil is attached to the "Coil" terminal of the electrolock. The hot wire coming from the amp meter is attached to the "Batt" terminal of the electrolock.

Sounds like you don't have a wiring diagram for your car. If not, you can get one from the Filling Station. That is really a piece of literature that you should have.

Thanks guys. However, it now won't start again! regardless of what position I have the wires in. Even the position they were in when it started a few hours ago?!! Not sure what to do now.

Check to see if there is a ground between the electrolock terminal stud and the distributor breaker plate when the points are open and the electrolock is unlocked. If there is a ground then the car won't start.

JD The wiring diagram you referred to for his 1931 would that also be true for a 29? And if so what manual are they in or are they separate. Thank you

A wiring diagram is in the owner's manual but you can get a better and a more detailed wiring diagram from the Filling Station. Check out their catalog.

While most of the wiring is basically the same some of the wiring for 1929 is different than a 1931....especially the wiring for the electrolock.

I've decided to take a break from it for now. I've got a couple of 12+ hour work days coming up. I'll try to get back to it Wednesday. I did make one more observation. As soon as I connect the positive battery cable, even with the key off, the amp gauge goes immediately to discharge. Any thoughts?

You have current draw from something that is obviously wired hot. Take one thing at a time off line and when the amp meter goes back to a zero reading you will know which component is hot. You should have a wiring diagram to help you.

Also, as stated above "Check to see if there is a ground between the electrolock terminal stud and the distributor breaker plate when the points are open and the electrolock is unlocked. If there is a ground then the car won't start."

I was looking through the F.S. catalog, and couldn't find the wiring diagram anywhere. Any chance you got a part #

I just checked and the wiring diagrams are in their catalog, however, the Filling Station no longer lists the older wiring diagrams unfortuantely. At any rate, give me your email address and I will email you a copy of the 1930-31 Chevrolet wiring diagram.

I would have emailed it to you directly, but you don't have an email address listed in your profile.

Think, do you have 6 volts to your coil or not? If you do then it is not in your wiring. If you don't then the car won't start. It is not that hard to figure out which terminal on the igition switch is controled by the key. If there is 6 volts to the coil and the car won't start there is something else wrong. Like Ray said get your tester out and figure out which terminal goes on and off with the ignition switch.

Posted on November 8th.

Yes he had voltage then and he got it running but now after working on the wiring it won't start. I was just saying check that again so it can be ruled out as the reason it won't start.

barnfind31,
The current draw (short) apparently is not continuous situation but intermittent. If that is the case then when the draw is not active the car will run but then the "short" drops the voltage so the car will not run. Once you find the "short" the car should run.

Just be aware that you should get ~ 2-4 amp discharge when the ignition switch is on and the points are closed. Will not always be that way but my experience is that the points are closed about 90% of the time that I jump in and turn on the ignition switch.

Just to clarify things Ed, I've always had 6.6 volts at the coil, both when it ran, and when it didn't. I will also say this, I've always HATED electrical problems! I'd rather rebuild the tranny and rearend again than fight electrical problems! I'm a voltage idiot unfortunately. Thanks again for all the advice and patience. Hopefully have good news on wednesday.

Almost forgot, Junkyard Dog, I got your e-mail. Diagram came through great! Thanks again!

C.J.

You bet and glad that I was able to help you out.

C.J.
Did you get it figured out yet? If you have had trouble with the distributor insulators, I would check for spark. Did you get the ignition switch to break the circuit to the coil? If not that could be your current draw when connecting the battery. The wiring diagram that JunkYardDog sent you should be a big help.

Hey Ed, nothing yet. I've been workin 12+ hours the last 2 days. Hoping to put some time in tomorrow though. I will keep you posted.
Thanks again,
C.J.

Yeah, those 12 hr. days suck! Hope you get it going when you have time to work on it.

OK Guys, finally got back to the garage. I followed the wiring diagram,(thanks Dog), and now I've got NOTHING! I can't even get juice to the coil now. I'm assuming 2 possibilities:
1) I have the ignition switch wired completely backwards. I was told there were makings on the switch, but I can't see any. I suppose I could have ALL the wires in the exact opposite spot they should be, but I don't think so. In it's current state, I have positive coil and gas gauge on the passenger side of the switch closest to the dash. The neg. coil on the same side farthest from the dash, and a wire to the ammeter on the driver side closest to the dash. Any help here would be appreciated.
2) Is it possible that all of my problems started with my ignition switch slowly going bad? Is it the possible source for my "intermittent ground" problem?
Thanks again for all the help!
C.J.

#1. From your description you have the electrolock wired correctly.

#2. Yes.

Update: I bypassed the switch and got juice to the coil. However, I don't have juice coming out of the coil. I'll assume I fried it again and replace it tomorrow. Then keep chasing voltage down the line.
C.J.

I assume you are talking about the coil terminal that goes to the poins? If the points are closed or grounded I don't believe you will get a voltage reading. Try unhooking the wire that goes to the points and check for voltage on the coil terminal that goes to the points.

Try wiring around the electrolock with a toggle switch and see if that works, you can use the toggle until you get the electrolock rebuilt.

You can't really fry the coil. Like uncle ed said the points are proably just closed.

Open the points and stick a piece of cardboard between them and check the voltage.

If you open and close the points you should see them spark if hte are closing.

I opened the points, put piece of plastic between them, and still don't have juice out of the coil. Karl, I have already by passed the switch. That appeared to be part of the problem. Just chasing voltage now.
SWC, my coil sounds like a can of peanuts when you turn it end for end. "Fried" may not be the proper term, but there is definately something wrong with it.

Well....IT RUNS! It seems it was a combination of problems, and 1 more new problem.
The ignition switch is faulty, and my points insulator was faulty. I had replaced the insulator once,but apparently screwed that up somehow.
I have wired the hot sources(Hot from starter on one side and pos. coil and gas gauge on the other) through a toggle switch and made a new insulator and the car fires right up. The negative coil wire is still running through the ign. switch.
Now my new problem...The ammeter is showing a serious discharge. About 8-12 amps when the car is running. Whatcha got this time guys?
We're making progress and I truly appreciate all the help. I'm so close to cruising I can taste it!!

C.J.

When you re-wired the car did you by chance reverse the wires on the back of the amp meter by mistake?

I questioned that myself Dog. According to the diagram you sent me it should be right. I have "hot" from the starter to the passenger side of the gauge by itself. I have the lead from the drivers side terminal to the ignition. This wire shares the ammeter terminal with a small cluster of wires going to the lights I believe.

Yep, you have the wires reversed. The hot wire should be on the driver's side and the generator wire, along with the other wires, should be on the passenger side.

I swapped the wires on the guage and it's all good!! Did that just before work this morning...hoping to test drive tomorrow sometime.
I'm gonna re-connect the ignition switch one more time, now that I have ALL of the wiring right, just to make sure it is still partially to blame.
Thanks again to everybody for all the input. You guys are great!!

C.J.

Well, after several days of starting up just fine, even going for a short cruise on Sunday, it won't start again. To recap things, I have by-passed the hot side of the ignition switch with a toggle switch. It had been working fine. When it didn't start today, I first checked the coil to see if it would excite. It didn't. I then ran a jumper wire from the ground of the electrolock to a ground source and got the coil to excite, but still won't start. I'm guessing my electrolock switch is completely toast, not completing the circuit to the disributor. If so, can I rebuild this? Obviously my electrical skills suck to be frank. Or would it be wise to send it out to be rebuilt?

C.J.

I suspect that you have bad insulation on the center wire in the electrolock. You are probably better off to send to a qualified rebuilder than try to mess with it yourself. In the mean time remove the electrolock from the distributor, install an terminal bolt insulated from the distributor body but in electrical contact to the points. Connect a wire to the toggle switch so you have switched power to the points. That should allow you to run the car until you get the rebuilt electrolock back.

Thanks Chipper. I'll try the terminal bolt and see what happens. Is there anybody you would suggest to rebuild the electrolock? Time and distance from me is not important, QUALITY of the workmanship is! I trust you guys to lead me in the right direction.

Thanks again,
C.J.

If you use the toggle switch, add a small warning light that goes on when you have the ignition on. That way you won't accidently leave the ignition on and cook the points or run down the battery.

Either Skipper or me. Both of us have rebuilt a bunch of them. Skipper more than I.

C.J-Look in your Novenber G & D on page 39 and contact your technical advisor #21. He can steer you in the right direction.

hoppy

I don't think that C.J. is a member of the VCCA.