The discussion in the 29-32 "room" convinced me what I suspected and that is that the KRAVEX DUPONT HYPALON IGNITION CABLES and booted plug ends, that came on my engine, are not correct for my 35 Master. And I now know that cloth covered plug wires and the distributor to coil wire should be sold copper core and with cloth covered black painted wire. My questions are: Are the ends offered by Filling Station (GR-258) with GM "stamped" in the ends correct? And, are the plug cable sets offered by FS (GR-216) correct? Do the sets also include the coil to distributor wire? I cannot find them listed separately. Or do you advise that I just get the whole set from YnZ? (Confused again!)

There should be nothing stamped on the ends.

I see the ones Chevs of the 40's sell also have GM stamped ends.

Chev Nut: Can you tell us what years had the "GM" stamped on the ends of the spark plug connectors...if at all? I have seen several original wires with "GM" stamped on the plug ends, so I was curious as to what year or years they would be. Often heard that the "GM" logo on the wires started in 1934.

Filling Station calls the wires, for early 6 cylinders, with ends without anything on them (SA-135) "replacement type."
However, ChevGene, if you are convinced these are as original, that's what I will order.

No years ever had a GM on them.Also I have never seen any with the GM on them (original)

Before WWII Chevrolet sold two grades of wires for replacement.The Packard Cable and a cheaper set they called "standard replacement"-perhaps the std replacement had the GM??-After the "Bow Tie" was discontinued they were all just plain terminals.Wires looked the same from 1934-52.I don't understand why places always add something to their product that isn't proper.

The wires were actually made by Packard Cable-a division of GM-but no name was on the insulation of the original equipment wires but was on the replacements.In 1953 the cars began using the carbon string wires TV and Radio supression type,

and The Packard name along with the TVRS was printed on the RUBBER insulation.The trucks used Packard 440 copper core wire.(rubber insulation also).

I have never seen any of the wires that the FS carries.If you would call them and inquire as to what they look like I sure that they would know.They always seem to be very helpful.

The sets usually come with a standard length coil wire - the 1934 and older only required a longer wire as the coil was mounted on the firewall.

Reviewed all my info.-judging info.-and thought thru my observations and have nothing on GM ends.I never saw this mentioned until the later batch of replacement wires came along.Perhaps 1935 Master Tech. advisor will have some input...

Ya, that's why I asked because I was confused about the "GM" wires myself. However, I have seen several, what appeared to be original, wires with the "GM" on the spark plug ends. The wires were cloth covered, black lacquered as well. And, I have heard that some of the judges are deducting points on the early vehicles if the wires don't have the "GM" on the spark plug ends. At any rate, if the factory stock wires didn't have "GM" on them, then all of us need to be educated in that direction, especially for judging purposes and etc.

By the way, here is a posting on the subject dated January, 23 2004:

"IMHO the brass ends were used 1929-1933 or so and the plated steel ends with bow-tie ends from 1933 to ~1935 when they were replaced with an identical part but with the GM stamp not the bow-tie. Sure wish there was some real documentation on the change."


I agree...it sure would be great to get some documentation on this. Thanks for the update Chevy Nut!

Have any of you folks ever seen any plated steel 90 deg. spark plug ends with a bow-tie stamped into them? I have two that I acquired many, many years ago. The wire is the correct black lacquered cloth with solid wire core and they are the correct length for the '33 six cylinder engine.

I never have, however, I have heard from others that they do exist. How about the "GM" stamped ends, any thoughts on that?

I suspect that they are NOS replacement wires. Until the mid 30s Chevrolet replacement parts were in Bow-tie logo boxes. After that time GM boxes were used on some parts. It was probably a cost reduction to have the boxes useable for any GM model. The part vendor only had to stamp the part number on the box and not inventory several logo boxes for each size. It also would save only having one box for each size printed. I think that the parts in the box would be the same. If all ends were GM stamped then they would be useable on Chevy, Pontiac, Cadillac, Buick, GMC, Yellow Cab, Olds, etc. Again a little cost reduction. At least is logical to me.

Okay, if I understand this correctly.....cars from the factory came with plain spark plug terminal ends and the replacement wires came with "GM" stamped on them. Somehow, if this were the case, it just doesn't sound logical....not to say that this didn't happen however. You would think that it would be the other way around, or to be more cost effective, it would make more sense to use just one type of spark plug terminal instead.

I have original photo's of 1934 and 1935 cars that were taken new every year at the GM Proving Ground in Milford Mich. 1934 cars had chevrolet bowties on most of the engine parts; radiator hoses and most of the castings. In 1935 all the pictures show GM in places where the bowties were. 1935 chevrolet went from the double bit keys to the GM single bit key for doors & igniton at the same time. I haven't been able to find the reason why Chevrolet went to the GM logo. The engine pictures all all of the left side, no rights.

Exactly! I have seen similar photos dated around 1935 with "GM" on the radiator hoses and etc. So, if that was the case then, logically, why would the factory spark plug terminals be plane and the replacement terminals have a "GM" logo? Logistics would dedicate that it would be the other way around I would think. Hopefully, someone can come up with the needed documentation to answer the question.

I beg to differ on one point-1934 castings do not have the Bow Ties on them.1933 was the last year.My 1934 does not have one Bow Tie on any casting.Also the double cut key was a one year 1934 feature.
Some times the proving ground and other early pictures can be very misleading.

Yes, now that you mention it Chev Nut, I do remember reading as well that 1934 was the only year for a double-cut key.

Was 1934 the first year to use Briggs & Straton keys and locks??My '34 has the original keys and the key tab with number still on the door and ignition keys.The keys were the same from 1935-66-1500 key numbers fit all GM cars produced during that time.Few than that in actual keys as the were six spaces - each could be cut one of four depths so many keys interchanged.

Plug wires.....Many cars of the '30's went to their grave with the original wires.The wires lasted much longer back the as they were short. not to exposed to oil and carried lower voltage.We had several low milage very original cars in this area thru the years- none ever had GM terminals.Would be intresting to check out some of the ultra low milage cars around the country.Sounds if this will be another of the "judging mysteries" kicking around for the next 30 years.It too bad that more of the tech. advisors don't at least state their opinions on this site.--but that would probably add more to the confusion.

Hi from downunder
My 34 Master was a low mileage original one owner when i bought it 28 years ago. The spark wire ends look like they've been there since new, and it was still running the original wiring.
They have plain ends, also the original double cut key and it's hardy ever used spare one
Chris

That is great information. Thanks for your input!

Chevgene-I have a bowtie-marked casting on the right support for the engine mount on my '34. Also have 90 degree steel spark wire ends with bowtie stamping. It is a low mile car built in Tarrytown with an April engine casting number. I have the original sales receipt showing April 12, 1934. I guess it is possible some plants may have done some things a little different or made some change that could cause confusion today! What do you think?

More good information. Keep it coming guys!

The engine mount brackets are the same for 1933-34's--They may have never changed the casting (or forging)???

I will agree that all plug wires may not have been the same.Both my friends '34 Master (purchased in 1968 with 28,000 moles) and my '34 I pucchased in 1970 with 45,000 miles have plain wire ends.My '34 is a later Sport Sedan.Can't get to see my mount brackets at the present time - still taking its winter nap.Will be checking later.

Thinking about writing an article for the G&D ---asking what others have found.Not enough members use this site.

Gene, I's sure you could write a whole book - a good winter project for you.

Here's my two cents on the plug wires.

I believe 1935 was the first year for the "GM" stamped ends. They should be 90 degree plated steel (not brass) on either black or yellow shellac covered wires.

If I am judging and you have the above type on your '35, I won't see a problem. I can't find anything tonight to prove or disprove what I believe is correct. Not really sure I ever saw it in print. I think it's just something I picked up in the 30+ years of researching 1935 Masters.

I also believe if GM/Chevrolet took the time to have their trademark stamped on the wire ends it was so they would be installed at the factory, not just for resale.

Great topic!

On the color of the plug wires, all of the literature that I have shows that the factory plug wires were black only, and that the yellow wires were aftermarket. Do you have any documentation to show that the plug wires were yellow from the factory?

Yep, this is definitely a great topic!

I will agree with the above.I have tons of films srtips and all 6 cylinder engines show a dark colored wire (films are in black and white) .At one time I was amazed to see so many good restorations show up for VCCA judging with the yellow wires.I had began to doubt my "knowledge".I will say black for sure

I have always deducted for the rattle snake looking wires

I never deducted for shellaced wires...I always figured it would be inpossible to prove one way or the other and gave the owner the benefit.

So, what's the general thought here...should I have been knocking points for yellow wires?

Yep!

Hey Guys,

I just heard about this chat. And I have a question, why do I have 3 34 engines with GM wire ends on them? The wires that came off my car had GM on them and the car had about 80,000 original miles on it. I think I need to call a guy that has a very low mileage 34 and see what he has on it.

Do the ends have the small GM stamped into the ends-not the more raised letters (Bow Tie) as the older years used ???--I know which "low milage" '34 that you are referring to.Was hoping someone would check that car out.---The question still comes up-did all '34's have the GM--and what year did they stop???????????

The fact also remains-----it will never be used in VCCA judging as there are other items at this time that are much larger than this that have never been resolved as there are no real guide line available for judges to use -

Hey Chevgene!

I wish I had a digital camera so I could post a picture of what I have. Maybe I’ll stop by Ray’s later this week. Any way I have a set of wires that have GM stamped on top of them which came on the car when we got it in 1980. The engine is the original engine which is on the title. The Casting date is Feb 19 34. I also have a couple of other sets but I don't know the casting dates from the engines, to hard to get the blocks out. Also, I don't need to drop a 34 block on my BIG toe again. :p

I'll make a point to call the guy later this week, I don't really like calling him that much since he always has to run down to the cars to look.

Some vendors offer O-rings for bundling plug wires together. Were these used on 1935 Masters? I have routed the 1 and 2 and the 5 and 6 plug wires through the metal loops on the pushrod side covers. Is this correct?

You are correct.The O rings were used from 1940 and up when the metal lops were eleminated from the side cover.