Hi there,
Before I reinstall the steering column I thought that it might be a good idea to find out about any wiring that has to go into the column?
There is a small hole with a grommet at the botttom and on inspecting the horn push conclude that it works by shorting out something with the 2 long wires that make contact below the button.
Which brings me to how do I introduce electrical current into the column?
I had a look at the online Manual but nothing is mentioned about this item?
any ideas out there?
Peter

At the base of the steering column there is a hole for the mast jacket bushing wire. One end of the wire is connected to the mast jacket bushing at the top of the steering column, and the other end of the wire has a connector that will mate with the connector that is on the horn wire.

The horn wire is hot all of the time. When the horn button is depressed the two "S" wire prongs engage a brass ring on the mast jacket bushing which, in turn, completes the ground connection allowing the horn to activate.

thanks for the info.
how do I get a wire up to the top of the column inside the outer case? do I have to completely dismantle the steering column and then solder the wire to something?
Peter

The mast jacket (steering column) must be removed from the main steering shaft and the old mast jacket bushing pressed out of the mast jacket. The new mast jacket bushing has the horn wire vulcanized as part of the mast jacket bushing. When the new mast jacket bushing is installed into the mast jacket the attached wire is fed down through the mast jacket at that time and out the hole at the bottom of the mast jacket.

When installing the new mast jacket bushing, it must be in the correct location inside of the mast jacket for the horn button to activate the horn.

thank you for the info, it seems very complicated to me. Is there a way to make the horn work by installing wiring on the outside of the steering column?
Peter

As far as legality (in Aus) goes there is no reason to have the horn work from the steering wheel but if not there the MOMENTARY contact switch must be noticeably marked. To attach a wire to operate from the original button would be near impossible without removing the bush from the outer steering column.
I have just replaced that wire in my 38 but knowing I was getting a new "S" wire and button I havent set the bush to full depth yet.
Tony

TonyW,thank you for your reply,
I really dont have a clue to what u r talking about...
please explain in plain English
ta
peter

Hi TonyW,
Please disregard my previous reply.
I have now re-read the info several times and now fully
understand what you said.
The bush that we are all talking about is the one at the top,
directly underneath the horn push?
1= how can it be pushed out of the column?
2= can this special bush still be bought? and where?
cheers
Peter

The steering wheel and the mast jacket (steering column) must be removed from the main shaft before the mast jacket bushing can be pressed out.

The mast jacket bushing can be pressed out of the mast jacket by using a long pipe or a long round piece of wood the correct diameter.

You can get a new mast jacket bushing from the Filling Station in Lebanon, Oregon. Go here: www.fillingstation.com

By the way, you can make the horn work by mounting an aftermarket horn button and bracket on the side of the mast jacket and then you can run a wire from the aftermarket horn button directly to the horn.

JunkYardDog has it right though he did omit that the bush is a real tight fit in the outer column and only comes out the top.
When you refit the bush make sure the hole for the wire to exit and where the wire leaves the bush are at the lowest point or the wire will rub on the worm shaft and you wont be able to stop the horn operating.
Tony

Tonyw didn't mention that usually there is a little tab protruding on the inside of the mast jacket. The bushing is pressed into the mast jacket to the point where the bottom of the bushing is resting on the tab on the inside of the mast jacket. In that location when the "S" wire with the horn button is inserted the horn should work correctly. If you don't get the mast jacket bushing in the correct location the horn will either not work at all or it work all of the time.

It is best to measure the depth of the mast jacket bushing and put the replacement at the same depth. It is possible to push the bushing past the small tab rendering the horn button useless. Don't ask me how I know but, removing the mast jacket a second time to readjust the bushing is not too much fun.

Thank you all for the extra information.
I checked up on the "fillingstation"site and they dont make the bush for the STEERING COLUMN BUSHING, Quote:
exc CC DC ED GC JA KA KB KH COE , my is a car DC, also for many others.
I wonder if I push the old bush out, is it possible to attach a wire to it and out through the btm hole and make the whole thing complete again? Has any one done this modification?
Peter

Your right. The standards used a smaller steering column with smaller bushing. It was not considered cost effective to remake those bushings.

If you are lucky you maybe able to remove the bushing without damage but if the rubber has hardened even if you get it out likely you will not be able to get back in without damage.

I should have a couple of old stock bushings but don't remember if they are flexible enough to be able to use. Send me an email early next week if you need one.

Hi there Chipper,
thank you for the offer.I will let you know in due course.
Am I correct in thinking that the said bush is steel or brass even, and has some sort of rubber thing attached to it?
I have never seen one so can only guess at its form!
Peter

The original bushing is rubber with a brass contact plate and micorda bushing material. The plate has three legs one of which has the wire that runs down the steering column connected.

I use a broom stick or rake handle to tap the bushing out. If you use light to firm taps and the rubber is not too hard the bushing will eventually tap out. You can then determine if you need to replace the bushing (check for fit on steering column) or just replace part of the wire. As long as the brass contact plate is in good condition, it may be cost effective to replace the rubber. I can give you a couple of ways to do that if necessary.

The replacements use polyurethane elastomer (rubber), a new brass plate/wire and nylon bushing center.

Peter
I was able to remove the bushing from my 38, attach a new wire and refit the same bush. At this stage I havent put the bush down near its correct depth as I am fitting a new "S" wire and button therefore need to determine the correct position.
When I fit the wheel I will measure the length of "S" wire and adjust the bush depth accordingly.
Tony

If you reuse the same bushing make sure that it fits tight enough to not rotate when the steering shaft is rotated. If it does it will try to wrap the wire around the steering shaft.

If I purchased a master bush, could it be turned down on a lathe and made to fit a standard shaft? has anyone done this mod before?
Peter

so no one makes new bushes for 34 etc standards for the steering column? so what do I do now? any ideas? I asked if 34 master bushes could be turned down on a lathe to fit my car, but no one answered? sighhhhhhhhhh

Nope, no one is reproducing a mast jacket bushing for a 1934 Standard. You might try Don Rossi to see if he has one.

Because of the brass ring that is vulcanized to the top of the mast jacket bushing, you probably can't turn down a mast jacket bushing from a Master because the brass ring would have to be turned down as well. And, the brass ring has to be insulated from the side of the mast jacket.

Once you remove the old mast jacket bushing, if you find that it is in good condition you can attach a new wire to the mast jacket bushing and then reinstall it in your mast jacket.

If your old mast jacket bushing is not usable, then to make your horn work you can mount an aftermarket horn button to the outside of the mast jacket. You can probably purchase one of those at your local auto parts store.

I have some new ones but will be a month or two before I can get to them,

The bushing on my '34 standard fell apart when I removed it so I used a hole saw and cut a new one out of a piece of hard rubber. You will have to do a little work with a fie and knife but it's not too difficult. Solder a new wire to the brass ring and replace the assembly exactly at the depth of the old one.

have a few NOS, would need the ID and OD dimensions

Wes

Hi there,
Thank you all for your advice and help.
greencorn: that is a good idea if all else fails...
wesb: you mention i/d and o/d.
I can measure the I/D but what is the O/D measurement for?
I assume that you mean the O/D of the column tubing?
Peter

He needs the outside diameter measurement of the mast jacket bushing itself since the Standard used a small diameter mast jacket bushing than the Master.

hi there,
thanks for the info, now I understand the information..
Peter

Peter
It might be easier to measure the outside of the steering shaft and the inside of the tube but allow for any taper in the tube.
It maybe the same as my 38 but I have taken the steering box back to the shed with the rest of the truck so not just going to the shed in the back yard.
Tony

the inner diameter of the bushing and the outer diameter of the bushing or the inner diameter of the column

Hi there,
I have just stripped the steering column and taken some pictures.

When the rubber bush was removed, I found that it did not have any type of washer at the top for the horn wires to make contact with. Must have vanished many years ago!

The bush come out intact but very worse for wear as the photographs show.

The sizes are:
Depth set into the tube from top 43.34mm / 1.714 inches.
shaft size 15.67 mm / .616 inches.
Inside dia of main tube casing 29.70 mm / 1.168 inches.

If anyone out there has a bush of that approx sizing, please PM me. thank you.



see more click pic
some of the pics are not very good ,just learning to use a digital camera, my brownie died.....

Peter
View 5 should have a brass ring (washer) about half the thickness, I seriously doubt that bush can be repaired.
When I reinstalled mine I didnt put it fully down the tube, I will do that when I measure the length of the new "S" on the top button.
Dont loose that broomstick as you will need it to guage the correct depth because measuring from the top will be too far down the tube for a complete bush.
Tony

Yup, that bushing is done for. If you are handy and have a lathe or a buddy with one you can make a bushing. There are four parts. The inside (next to the shaft) needs to be nylon or Delron or like the original (micorda). The outside needs to be flexible so it can be installed and stick to the housing (can't rotate in the housing). A brass washer can be used to make the contact. Just make sure that it does not extend to the edges of the bushing or the horn will blow all the time. Solder a wire to the washer and leave enough length for it to extend out of the column when installed.

Yes I know it is a bit complicated but some hobby stores sell rubber casting materials and bearing suppliers have the nylon stock. I would drill a few shallow holes in the nylon just to make sure that the rubber attaches well. Soldering a couple of studs to the bottom of the brass washer would insure that it stayed in place and could be used for the wire. The wire is soldered to a leg on the original and repop brass contact.

I did make a prototype bushing from nylon with a relatively thin layer (~1/8") of weather strip rubber on the outside. I counter sunk the brass contact and drilled three holes (one for the wire and the other two for legs that were secured with more weather strip rubber. Only did a test install in the housing. Looked like it would have worked.

I have a few of these original NOS send me a PM

Wes 816 547 5006

Hi there,
I finally fitted the top bush that I had purchased from a member on this forum.
The bush measured slightly over size, the material that it is made from is very soft and now brittle (over 60 yrs old, we all get like that in time), so I had to very carefully reduce the dia by about 1.5 mm.

This I achieved by gently sanding the circumference with emery paper, a long strip in a see saw motion.
Eventually it fitted snugly and I threaded the wire down and then tapped in the bush.

I had predetermined that it had to finish 70mm from the top of the steering column to the top side of the bush.
There is an indent at the right spot and that is as far as the bush can go, and guess what? It ended up exactly 70mm from the top.

I test fitted the steering wheel etc and then came a problem.The horn button that I have is not working as it should.

The rubber underneath is split and wont seat down properly? I will have to buy a new one from I&I, but I cant see how the horn button stays down in the hole without popping out again?

any ideas out there on what I should be looking at?

Peter

The rubber under the horn button fits into the space between the metal insert and wheel bottom. That keeps it in place.

hello chipper, do you have a picture of same?

Don't have a photo but may be able to take one if I know what you want in the photo.

Hi Peter,

Is this what you had in mind?

Hi Pat S,
thank you for posting the pictures,
excellent shots showing everything....
now I see how the rubber is located in the chrome ring.
and it stays there without any fixings?
amazing

cheers
Peter

Yes it does. You have to work the lip down with a flat tool. The friction holds it there. The bellows part keeps the button up. When you push it down, the contacts hit the brass ring and the horn sounds. When you release the button, the bellows push the button back up. I'm not sure if that is a good description, but that is how it works.

Peter,

After I installed my '34 horn button as shown here by others, I had a problem with the horn sounding occasionally when turning the wheel. I fixed the problem by slightly filing the flat ends of the two contacts so the horn only worked when I pushed it. It takes just a small amount of metal removed to fix this problem in case you have it. Too much removed will result in no horn.

thank you Pat,
I will bare that in mind when mine is ready to be installed.
cant Waite for the moment..
great pix 2

Peter

Finally the horn push rubber button arrived from I& I after 7 weeks journey from USA to Australia.
After fitting it in the metal cap and into the horn ring assembly, it did not push down at all. So after much huffing and puffing, I decided that the steering bush had to move further down the column.

I achieved this by gently tapping it down using a box spanner a bit at a time, refitting the steering wheel and trying it.

I had to move the bush down about 8 mm and then the button started to work.
I could push it down using force and it connected with the bush bras ring in the column bush, and I hope in the fullnesses of time, make the horn sound, beep beep?
I also lubricated the rubber Diaphragm with Vaseline , because the new fitting made a funny noise when the steering wheel was turned.

Bluey
If the prongs on the button are contacting the brass ring in the column bush you need to set the bush slightly lower in the column. There needs to be clearance until the button is pushed.
Tony

Or just snip off a little on each prong. Much easier and quicker than pushing in the bushing. Besides it rests in a different place on the shaft. If the shaft is worn the fit will be better.

I am wondering that if the central horn button is only pushed on one side and only one prong touches the ring on the top of the bush, Will the horn sound and work?

or do you have to push hard so that the two prongs make contact with the metal ring on the topside of the bush?
Peter

One Prong contact is all that is needed to make an effective circuit to ground for the horn to work.

thank you for your reply Jack, most appreciated..
I cant wait for the moment of truth maybe this year or next.
Peter