New to the forum and we really need some help. My friend & I had the engine from the 33 rebuilt at a local machine shop. All new bearings pistons rings etc...After installing it was so tight it wouldn't turn over with any of the plugs installed. (Starter,battery,cables are not the problem) After contacting the machine shop they told us that they farmed out the crank work to a "specialist" and were concerned when they couldn't turn the crank with the new bearing work complete. The specialist told them that it had to be that way and 75 lbs of torque were necessary for setup. Is this crazy?? On top of that they forgot the rear oil passage plug and when we tried to build initial pressure with a dog attatched to a drill with the distributor out oil came pouring out of the rear. Does anyone know of a machine shop in the Sonoma Ca area that has real knowledge?? Your help would be greatly appreciated

Hi stoboro
The only person I know in within a 200 mile radius of Sonoma is Gregg at Cal’s Machine in Oakdale. 209-847-1810 470 S 5th Ave Oakdale, CA 95361. He seams to be pretty good at Babbitt work, they mainly do Model A stuff but can do just about anything. I’m going on memory here but I think the specifications for clearance on your crankshaft should be .0005 - .0015". It should turn over by hand when all the mains are torque. Rod clearance is .001-.002” I think. I can send you a scanned page with the spec if you need it. Send me a PM with your email if you do. Good luck.

I had some engines rebuilt by a good babbit man and he set them up as you described. He had me tow the car with plugs out for about a mile or so in third gear to limber things up, said they used to put new babbit bearing engines on a stand when new and burnish in the bearings. Remember too that the pistons and most everything else are tight also. after I towed the car I started it and ran it a couple of minutes for about ten times and then it was ready to carefully break in. After about 2000 miles I checked clearances and all were .0015.

Before I would tow the car and loosen up the babbit bearings, get the oil leaks fixed and put a full crankcase of Valvilene or Pennzoil 5W-20 conventional or whatever you prefer (not Synthetic) motor oil and once you get the engine running on it's own change to what you will run in the engine. With the sparkplugs out the only resistance will be the friction of the pistons and crankcase bearings. Have you been able to turn over the engine by hand? or by jacking up a rear wheel and rolling the wheel over with the transmission in 3rd gear? be careful pulling the car in gear, get up to about 15 MPH with the clutch pushed down and slowly let the clutch out, trying to keep the wheels from sliding or the clutch slipping, Have the battery fully charged and after you get the engine turning over after pulling ia around see if the starter will turn the engine over. I had to do that with my first 34 Chevy truck when I put in new rods, but I had gas in the tank and sparkplugs, the engine would start and run at a fast idle after being pulled for a 1/2 mile or so. but that was a long time ago when I was 13. We didn't have booster cables till much later, or battery charger at home then, so the only way to start a car with a dead battery was to pull it around the quarter section, back to the house, work on the engine and go around again till it ran.
All my driving was on county roads and rabbit hunting in the pasture.

Its common for a 1933 starter to not turn over a "fresh" engine. If it were mine I would jump it with a 12 volt battery. If it still dosen't turn over either the starter is bad or the bearings are too tight. The 12 volts will not harm a good starter just keep the cranking time down to 10 seconds at a trial. First I would try it with the plugs removed.

I have not cranked the 33 after the rebuild that was done over the winter. Finished the wiring harness, and soldering up the lights today. The crank was in great shape during the rebuild, so the mains could be replaced with standard mains. All I know is 2 were perfect, and the 3rd was within tolorances. So the question would be, do I have a better chance of this pig cranking than if I had needed precision mains? 2nd. Because the valves are set so tight, (.006intake and .008exhaust)does that play a part in hard cranking? Or might be part of the original threadsStoboro's problem?

Thanks for the help...We have the original shop manual that clearly states that after the crank has been set up "turn the crank by hand" After that, without rods, it is connected to a "run in machine for 45 min". The engine will turn over without plugs, but even installing a single plug will keep it from turning more than an anemic couple of revolutions. I did consider 12 volt option, very tempting, but the starter rebuilder warned against it. Actually we did try to tow it...lots of tire marks on the long driveway, and then the fact that they left the oil passage plug out maybe we're lucky it didn't start. I have rebuilt post-war 6 volt engines, tight yes, but this is extreme. So there seems to be two diverging paths, tight crank on setup (75 lbs of torque??) or able to turn it by hand. Maybe we should take a vote. I will contact the machine shop in Oakland...More opinions are better!!

The valve clearance adjustment won't cause extra friction, however sticking valve stems in the valve guides can cause bent and broken pushrods. Myself, I wouldnt tow a car with an engine that can't be rotated with a pry bar in the flywheel ring gear teeth, I think that is TOOO darned tight. Are there shims in the rod bearing caps?

The valves guides are good, not sticking. With great effort and a 24" pry bar you can turn over the engine using the ring gear teeth. By the way, what is the consensus on initial run in at first start? The machine shop recommended start and run 2,000 rpm for 20 min, something common for cam break in on more modern engines.

when I asked that question, it was just long enough for the entire engine to reach 175 degrees. hot and expanded.

I have a freshly rebuilt 216 block with only the crank installed (no rods/pistons). I also need a breaker bar just to turn the crank over. Once it's moving, it doesn't take near as much effort to keep it turning but the amount of initial force surprised and concerned me.

When I asked the machinist about it, he said it was normal as the babbit had a fair amount of "grab" until burnished. He said 5min of run time and it will turn more freely...

Stoboro,

I had the same issue with my '34 engine that sat for almost 20 years after it was rebuilt. I thought at first it was frozen as I could not get it to turn over by hand or even with a 12 volt jump.

What worked for me was to pull the plugs and squirt a liberal amount of MMO (Marvel's Mystery Oil) in each cylinder and let it soak. I did this two or three times and after about 4 or 5 days it began to turn over with the 12v jump. So, at the advice of a mechanic friend, I continued to turn the engine over for about 20 seconds at a time with the 12v jump, twice or so a day as I had time. I was able to get the oil pressure gauge to move up to about 10 lbs which made me feel good. After a couple of weeks I began to notice it was turning over easier so I put the plugs back in, made sure both the 6v and 12v batteries were fully charged, pulled at the throttle (a bit too much) and the choke, hit the starter and ZOOM it started right up. It scared the #@* out of me as I did not think it was loose enough yet.

It now starts with the 6v battery if I do everything right (not sure what that is yet) but I keep a fresh 12v and jumpers close by. I'm beginning to think I need to choke a it bit more after pumping the gas before I try to start it but worry about flooding the engine.

Is there anyone out there that can tell me the nature of the '34 carb. and how to best start these engines? I know the trick on my other (brand) carburetor engines but I am still learning on the old Chevy.

Try to start the engine without any choke. If after 5 seconds or so it does not start pull out the choke fully and immediately push it back in. The engine should start unless it has been an extended time since it was last started. In that case you may need to keep the choke pulled until it first fires and then push it in. That process seems to work the best for me. By the way never choke a hot engine. If anything push the accelerator pedal 1/2 or more open when trying to start a hot engine. Todays gas is more prone to percolate and put gas into the manifold giving a rich condition.

I can tell ya right now the clearances werent proper. Being a machine shop, they should have noted this AND corrected the problem. A good rebuild is not so tight to were you have to jump the starter with a 12 volt battery or tow the car (no pun intended) and im PRETTY positive they didnt do that from factory. Trouble is with modern machine shops are that when it comes to OLD engines, 90% are not knowlagable in this department (a problem i see personally more often than i'd like) and the fact that out of those 90%, they leave any problems to be revealed last minute like; by the owner after the owner has spent a few hours installing the engine, only to be utterly and quite literally, dismayed. Hard to find a good...GOOD machine shop these days. It payes to be mechanically inclined.

I have found that mine starts best when I run the elec. fuel pump to fill the carb., then shut It off. I pull out the choke, pump It twice, pull out the throttle and hit the starter. It starts right away! I then adjust the choke until It warms up. Works for me!!!!
Richard

Stoboro, Yesterday I put the fuel my 33 and turned the key for the first time since being rebuilt over the winter. No turning this bad boy with a 6 volt battery. Actually sounds exactly as you describe. the 6 volt must have been solidly charged, cause the engine had a hard time trying to turn, the starter was trying and after 6 or 7 seconds of the power going to the starter(which was not turning much at all) it started to puff smoke.This was detected by the second man at the engine, and I stopped trying to crank immediatly as no to burn it up. the same conversation is going on over at the 32 forum with a 31 or 32 truck. I'll call the rebuilder today, and tell him to bring a strong 12 volt when he comes,I guess. I will post the results later today.
Maudslay

Drag it to the top of a hill and then try to turn it over in third gear or roll a bit and hit the starter and let the clutch out.

If you feel you must bump start the car, you'd want it to be in second gear and i dont beleive you'd want to engage the starter becouse you'll tare the bendix up.

Tight engine = third gear start, you will not harm the starter as it will spin out when the engine starts. Back-fire (Advanced timing) is what will cause starter damage.

Thats just not something i would do. It's against my better half ill just say.

Hello,
I don't mean to highjack this thread, but I'm in the same boat. Is has be awhile since I've posted--much going on at work and otherwise. The engine in the 36 is newly rebuilt but very tight and the starter will not turn it, at least with spark plugs in. We're going to try the tow method probably--also there is a fairly long hill that that we could drift the car off of and tow back to the top as needed.

What is the recommended break-in procedure for a newly rebuilt 207 with the 4:11 differential--especially one that is really tight? I've put in 10w30 oil--will that be ok? Specifically, how long should I run it on the first start up and subsequent start ups? How should the break-in be done when driving--how long and at what speeds?

Thanks!

I always wander about tight engines. Did the rebuilder loose his calipers? No testing of each rod mounted, forgot to check the fit of the bearings, failed to check end gap on the rings, just don't understand.

My prefered way to run-in an engine is to run it for about 10 or 15 minutes and then let it cool down for the first few times. I don't let them run at a slow idle if possible and run at various speeds. For your engine I would keep the road spedd down to 35 MPH for the first hundred miles but don't be afraid to run it up a little and then back -off. If it is the rings and pistons that are tight it will help if you put a pint of 2 cycle oil in the gas tank.
Sometimes is more that the starter is just too weak to turn the engine over at anything more than average needs. When you do et it warmed-up you will find the turning it over will be even more difficult when hot so don't shut it off unless its parked where you want it to be for the first miles.
Keep us posted...........

I start first time and run only a few minutes or so (3-5) and listen real close then start it again and run it ten or so and check everything out before running it any more.

When my 36 engine was freshly rebuilt It was tight and hard to turn over. I admit I used a 12 Volt jump to help It start faster. I also had overheating problems. Feeling that there must be something wrong I rechecked all clearances that I could get to without tearing down the engine again. Everything seemed to be fine. I would run It every day until just before It would start to overheat. After several weeks I no longer needed the 12 volt jump and It would even idle in warm weather without overheating. Be patient, It just needs to break In assuming clearances, timing etc. are correct.

Do run It at different speeds to allow the rings to seat properly. Years ago we had stationary engines that were run at a constant speed and the rings didn't seat properly. We had to run BonAmi thru the carb. to get them to seat. NOT recommending this!

My engine now starts easily on a wet cell 6 volt battery, but wow it starts almost before I hit the starter with my Optima battery!

As always, just my opinion, but hope this helps.
Richard

I always start a fresh engine and run it at a very fast idle untill it reaches operating temp. Then run for 15 more minutes.
Shut down and re-torque the head bolts. Then I drive them. When I reach for the key they start.

Chevy 1937

Would you explain how re-torquing the head bolts after running for a short time helps a rebuilt engine start better? This forum is a great place to learn for those of us who lack the mechanic's skills many folks have here. Thanks ahead for the continued lesson.

Retorquing the head bolts is done to compress the head gasket farther and has nothing to do with starting. This is done to prevent coolant leaks. The old "thick" head gaskets could compress a bit.
The steel shim head gasket used for 8 Cyl. engines back then did not require retorqing.....and most of the new conventional gasket does not require it. Probably best to follow the instructions made by the gasket maker. That being said I would still retorque the head once later due to the age and etc. of the head.
When new the new car prep guy would retorque the head and adjust the valves. For the 1000 mile inspection that would be done again. Chevrolet recommended retorqing the head with easn tune-up.

It doesn't help it start! It's just the proper thing to do. No engine should be TIGHT after a rebuild that the proper 6 volt will not turn it over. If so, it should be gone through to see what is wrong.

I know it's a hassle but I would add a couple thousandths of shims under the rods and mains, run it a while then pull down the caps and see where the wear is. I still have a good set of babbit scrapers but who knows what I'm talking about or even how many still know the technique? Babbit bearings on small engines should be set up properly if you want to do it the right way and not have problems 5 thousand miles down the road (or less.....). The boring bar sets up the mains, not the rods. Get them too tight and you risk rubbing out the material due to high friction; then you will wish you had done it right in the first palce.

Chev 1937 - I understand the reason for torquing the head after a rebuild, but the way I understood your post made me think there was some connection to starting the motor which I could not understand.

Part of the problem is the 75 year old starter just dosen't perform the was it did when new. That along with batterycables that are not up to par plus "not the best" connections along the way.....and new rings sliding on a dry cylinder wall, all add up to a tight engine not turning over.

Thanks for everyone's input--this thread certainly seems to have ellicted opinions! We're hoping to try starting the car this coming weekend--will see what happens. It is set up pretty tight, but we plastigauged all the main and rod bearing surfaces and assembled with engine lube. If I recall correctly we set the clearances at 2 thousandths or a little more on the mains--between 1 and 2 on the rods. NOS (GM)rods and NOS (GM) crankshaft.

NOS and NORS later-style insert main bearings were used, so line-boring wasn't necessary. I'm hoping these aren't an issue--these seem to be rare as hen's teeth so a complete set of three was put together from 2 GM bearings and 1 aftermarket. Theoretically the should all be the same--but I've had other NORS parts that weren't exactly like the NOS.

One area I'm concerned with is the valve guides--the machinist got those a little tight and I'm hoping that a valve doesn't stick after getting hot, bending a push rod. Some of the piston pins are tight, too. The set of NORS aluminum pistons I had didn't come with the wrist pins, so the machinist fit a set.

Will also re-torque the headbolts after running. That advice I was familiar with.

How crucial is it to prime the oil pump? I thought that since everything is well coated with engine assembly lube and these things were low pressure anyway that this might not be necessary. Any thoughts?

I'll provide an update once more is known.

P.S. My brother's Model A F*** was very tight when he rebuilt it-but it now runs very well.

I would definitely prime the engine, spray the valves/guides with Marvel Mystery Oil, and crank over for a while with the plugs out before trying to start.

Is this Marvel Mystery Oil available in Canada? I've never seen it or heard of it outside of this forum. Looks like it is almost indispensable.

Just use ATF (automatic transmission fluid) instead. It is nearly the same, much less costly and available everywhere. I use ATF even though I have some MMO. Use it as aftershave.

It is not necessary to prime the oil pump. What I do is leave the plugs out and spin the engine over with the starter. After the engine is runnning the presure will be up right away.

I'll agree with Gene on the older splish splash sling and dippy-do engines gets a major part of the lower works luberication from the rotation of the crankshaft and rods.

An update: good and semi-bad news.

The good--engine running great except for heating issues. When the spark plugs were removed, the starter would barely turn over the engine. With spark plugs in, not a chance. We towed the car around the yard in second gear(with spark plugs out) for a few laps with my brother's Farmall A.

Then put the spark plugs in and the starter was able to turn the engine over and it fired right up. Ran it for about 10 minutes and it got hot, so shut it down. After cooling, it was again too tight for the starter to spin. So hooked it back up to the Farmall A and did a tow start. Let it run again for about 10 minutes or so--got hot again and shut down. After cooling, it was able to turn with the starter and has ever since. Good oil pressure as well--for what little these carried.

But it still wants to overheat when sitting still. I don't have it road worthy yet (see semi-bad news below), so not able to drive to see if will stay cool with air moving over the radiator. I'm hoping that as it breaks in, the heating tendency will abate. Also, the timing is a guess right now--we forgot to bring the timing light so it may be advanced too much. And the cylinders have been bored to .060 over--I hope that the heating is NOT being caused by the oversize bores. Any thoughts--is .060 too much?

Brand new, NOS, flushed and inspected radiator and block cleaned out--so shouldn't be due to the cooling system. I did put in a Gano filter (because I thought there still might be some rust flakes in the block and wanted to catch those before they got into the radiator--my brother thinks the Gano filter could be restricting the flow-but I would think the thermostat would restrict far more). If still wants to get hot, I'll take out the thermostat for awhile.

The semi-bad news and why not on the road: I had put new brake cylinders and hoses on the back and we then bled the system. After pulling the car into my Dad's garage, heard this "glorp" and a whole bunch brake fluid was puked out onto the nice clean floor. Found the steel brake line from the master cylinder to the tee block had sprung a leak--and I apparently have been very lucky it didn't happen long before. Someone (before I got the car in 1983 and it's been a regular driver) had soldered up a hole in the line--it looks like the speedometer cable had worn a hole in the line! The solder gave way. So will need to replace this line--front rubber hoses are fairly new and other steel lines look good.

And the tail light sockets now have shorts in them (original wiring), so got to rewire that before getting on the road. Next is hook up the headlights (my brother put in a new wiring harness for me), put the hood back on, and should be ready to go!

Thanks again for everyones input!

In warm weather it is not that unusual for a newly rebuilt engine to over heat when the car is not moving, When you do run it pull out the hand throttle so the idle is quite fast.
You could also place a box fan in front of the grille.

If the timing is too retarded it will overheat, don't ruin your new job so watch the temp closely.

I see you are not a member of the VCCA. You are strongly urged to join so you can receive many benefits from this site and the club newsmagazine.

Sorry that my profile doesn't indicate it, but I've been a member of the VCCA since the mid-1980's (don't remember exactly when, but shortly after I got the car in 1983). I don't have my card in my wallet presently (guess I'm not a card carrying member), or could otherwise give the member number and update the profile. I'll try not to be a "lurker" on the forum and should make more of an effort to contribute.

I've always appreciated everyone's help and Gene has been of great assistance. The Tech Tips in the G&D have always been appreaciated and I hope Gene and others are able to continue.

Best regards,
--Joel

Actually, I just looked at my profile and it does have my member number. How do I indicate membership for the forum?

I looked at your profile and your Chevy Chatter II member number is 2522, and your VCCA membership number is 30031.

1936chev.
If you go to .. My Stuff on the header bar above. click on Edit Profile, and then go to "group images to display" Tick in the adjacent box and it will allow the VCCA member blue oval Icon to be diplayed under your user name with your posts.

Jack,

Thanks for the instructions--updated and even added an avatar of the 36.
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In warm weather it is not that unusual for a newly rebuilt engine to over heat when the car is not moving, When you do run it pull out the hand throttle so the idle is quite fast.
You could also place a box fan in front of the grille.
_________________________
Chevgene

Gene,

Appreciate the input. Yep, I've been running at a fast idle, and for awhile had a big shop fan in front of the car. As long as the fan was going the car stayed nice and cool. And timing could be a contributing factor--will set the timing before running again.

A quick update: The car has been driven almost 200 miles now and doing well (except for some old gas causing the carb needle/seat to stick closed) . As long as on the move and not on too prolonged of a pull (we live in the Appalachians...), it doesn't overheat. But one concern: It didn't seem to have as much power as should. Plenty of torque at low RPMs, but not much for acceleration.

I'm going to re-adjust the valves while hot(set with a pretty big gap cold for rebuild). Using a timing light, the timing was set with the ball on the pointer. But by using the octane adjustment on the distributor, advancing two degrees gave it a good bit more power. Would it hurt to try advancing it a little more?

No, not at all. You can probably go six or eight degrees more advanced. You will have to experiment and see what the best setting would be.

Also, adjust your valves to the correct spec. and never run a new engine on old gas.

Exactly ...and I think by "experiment" you mean "You can leave the timing light in the tool box ", do you not ?

The old gas had been siphoned out and a full tank of new gas put in. But I'm guessing that either the carb had old gum in it, or perhaps there was enough antique gas still in the tank to cause problems when mixed with the new. It has a Grose ball/seat seal in it, which seems to work well. The ball had stuck in the seat. Odd thing is that it didn't stick closed until driven about 90 miles.

We took the carburetor apart and gave it a good cleaning.

Driven about 100 miles since then and hasn't stuck again.

Yep, going to adjust the valves next time it's warmed up.

You can use the timing light to set the timing so that the ball is just at the edge of the window rather than in the center under the marker.

Does this engine not use an oil slinger in the rear instead of a seal? My understanding is that if you build pressure with a drill, oil will run out the rear because the crankshaft isn't moving.

Yep, it has a slinger, not an oil seal on the rear main. Not sure about about bulding pressure with the drill (we didn't do that), but it is leaking like the Exxon Valdez out the rear main. Not sure what I did wrong--the little ball in the rear main was free and the bearing is plenty tight.

About 1/2 quart of oil has leaked out from there and other places in 200 miles (the pushrod cover is leaking along the bottom-tightened the screws some more so will if that fixes anything)and oddly some oil around the fuel pump where it bolts to the block. Brand new gasket and bolts are tight, so another mystery.