So.... Everyone has seen pictures of my 34 town sedan and some of you know the level of the quality/work that has gone into the car, as well as the detail and time looking for the right parts.

So my questions here is, during judging at Flint how are the judges going to be looking at the car to make sure they are fair through the whole judging process?

So let me give you some background here. At the last meet when I was judging the 31's there were 2 things that made a car or didn't. I was judging the engines during the meet. When I started with the first 31, I think we had 10 to judge, I started marking off points if they didn't have AC G-12 plugs and a honeycomb radiator. I told myself someone in this line up will have G-12's at some point and I wanted to make sure that they got the right points. Well, would you believe out of 10 car's, two of them had G-12's?

So how are we going to make sure something like this happens at Flint? I know I've looked long and hard for my K-10 spark plugs. OK, to the cat is out of the bag, now can you find the other cool things that I have on the car.

I can tell you what hapened to me the last time I had our 31 judged. I lost four points for something that is correct. A month or so later I asked the fellow that judged that part of the car about it. He said he wasn't sure so he took the points off.

They do the best they can with what they know. Sometimes they are judging a class they know nothing about. The last time I judged I did not sign up for judging. I was recruited. Since I didn't have our 31 there I said I could judge 31 and 32. I had to judge everything up to WW 2.

Good luck and I hope the best vehicles win.

Bruce,
I wish I could tell you exactly how they are going to judge in Flint. It all depends on the individual judges and the specific instructions given by the judging officials. Recently the object has been to try not to upset anyone and allow "safety" items to be installed without penalty.

I displayed both my '32 Pickup and the Boss's '31 Fire Truck with 100% original ignition components including the oxblood cap, functioning coil, original spark plug wires including ends. Never did anyone make any comment to me about those parts. I surmised that most had never seen them so didn't know what they were looking at. Since most also knew I was the TA for those trucks they might have assumed they might be right so didn't deduct points.

Brucie: The two statements above should answer your question since those have been typical problems with the judging process for decades.

Hey Guys,

I know, that is why some people might not like how I judge. But you’re always going to get the same thing from me since I judge as it was sold. A few years ago I was told I was the only person that took 50 point for an engine. The way I look at it, if it’s wrong it’s wrong. If I don't know, I ask or don't take points.

So my point, I don't want to see someone getting the same points as I do for spark plugs when they are using a replacement plug like a 44 or 45. There are other things which I bet other people won’t know about. Did you know that the dual trumpet horns in 34 used a special wiring harness? I bet I'll get marked off for that one.

Now, I think we have talked about tires on here before. I should be marked down for the wrong size of tires on the 34. Bet that won’t happen.

Personally we should be judging to a standard for each year of car and that is how I try to judge what ever area I'm judging.

I'm waiting for when the 32 phaeton is done, it’s a January car. What type of spark plugs should be in it? And you’re wrong if you tell me G-10's.

Anyway I just brought this up so maybe someone who knows the chief should have him talk about this at the meeting. This should be the hardest judging your car will ever see. The bad part is I know the best 34 TA will not be Judging 34’s and that is Dave.

G-12.

I knew you would know that Skip.

Anyway I just brought this up so maybe someone who knows the chief should have him talk about this at the meeting. This should be the hardest judging your car will ever see. The bad part is I know the best 34 TA will not be Judging 34’s and that is Dave.
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I would think it should be the "fairest" judging your car will ever see. That makes more sense to me.

The correct tire size for 30 & 31 is 475 - 19 and I'll bet most of them will have 475/500 - 19.

Hi Bob,

Using the word "Fairest" are you meaning that Judges should not over look the fine details? So say your using a 569S carb on your 32 when it should be a 212? They are both a Carter "W-1" but one is a replacement carb for a 32? If that is what your meaning with that word, then yes we are on the same page.

Backroads, your very right about the 30/31 tire size.

The tire size is an example of a dilemma that often arises in judging. Since reproduction "original" tires (size, tread pattern, manufacturer, etc.) are not available for many old Chevys how should they be "judged"? I have maintained that since it is possible for someone to bring a vehicle to the judging field with the same tires as delivered (I know that Pinky was attempting to collect a '32 set many years ago. I have a few "Goodyear Silvertown" 5.25 x 18 tires) then any obvious reproduction tires should receive a small point deduction. The contrary viewpoint is that since the tires with multiple sizes, different tread, etc. are all that are available then no deduction should be made if one of the sizes on the tire is the correct one for the vehicle. They argue that to deduct will only irritate owners as they don't have any other option. My view is the same as Bruce. Why punish the owner that has gone the "extra mile" by finding the "original" parts by not deducting for reproductions? To do otherwise is not in keeping with the VCCA credo of "preservation and restoration as delivered". His example of the AC G-12 plugs is another similar situation.

Man, that statement is dead on and I totally agree!

I can't wait to read this thread AFTER the Flint meet!!!?!?!





ha ha ha ha ha

It ought to be interesting reading particularly now that they are taking soap operas off daytime tv. I am sure it will not rival "As the World Turns" but maybe a close second.

I will work on some of the script now. "I can't believe that they didn't take points off his car like they did mine." "I know it was right because I read it in ????? magazine." "That is all that I could find." "I'm never going to have mine judged again."

What you will not hear is: "I am going to volunteer to judge next time 'cause I think I can help make things better."

"I can't wait to read this thread AFTER the Flint meet!!!?!?!"

It probably isn't going to be pretty.

I allowed myself to get all bent out of shape after receiving my Judging Form back from Grand Junction. I got over it, or at least I think I did. The judges made some bad choices for deductions that ultimately hurt the possibility of the vehicle doing better than it did.

I enjoy judging and I like showing my car and regardless of earlier experiences, I'm probably going to continue to do that. Things aren't going to change much for the VCCA Judging under the terms we're forced to work with and I'm not sure I'm interested in seeing a change anyway. The system doesn't allow me to judge in the classes I'm remotely familiar with and that's understandable. So mistakes will continue to occur.

There's a strong chance that Bruce's spark plug situation won't be to his liking. Since his vehicle is a "First Time" judged unit it more that likely won't be the vehicle his assigned judging team will look at first. So his team starts with the Preservation vehicles, then moves to the Senior Cars and so on until it reaches his vehicle. The judge doing the engines doesn't have the detailed knowledge to pick up on the fact that the first 5 cars he viewed had a later version spark plugs and he takes no deductions from those vehicles. Now he looks at Bruce's car with the G 12 plugs and notices they are different from what was viewed previously. Now he has a choice to make, is this vehicle wrong or was he wrong on the previous vehicles. He questions the judging team and they all agree that this vehicle is correct and the previous vehicles were incorrect and should have received a deduction, now what? The previous judged vehicle judging forms are gone and in the hands of the tabulators, can't change those? If he didn't bother to ask he'll probably give Bruce's car a deduction, but if he did ask for help, the correct answer is no deductions for Bruce's car or any other car in the class. Either way Bruce gets screwed, no consideration for being correct and no loss for the others for being incorrect.

With an all volunteer system things probably aren't going to change anytime soon. My advise, work to make your vehicle the best it can be and don't allow the systems short comings to get into your knickers (but it's hard).

This is what I'm saying ...Chipper has hit the nail on the head for me.

BUT, all judges need to be on the same page ..and not simply judge with individual "opinions".

"Why punish the owner that has gone the "extra mile" by finding the "original" parts by not deducting for reproductions? To do otherwise is not in keeping with the VCCA credo of "preservation and restoration as delivered". His example of the AC G-12 plugs is another similar situation".
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"The judge doing the engines doesn't have the detailed knowledge to pick up on the fact that the first 5 cars he viewed had a later version spark plugs and he takes no deductions from those vehicles".

See, here is where I get mixed up. Mr VCCA member works his rear end off, getting his car as close to factory specs as possible, Then comes the judge who doesn't have the "detailed knowledge".

When, then, is he/she judging? Seems very unfair to the owner.

Right on Bob, Dick, Chip and Skip! I really liked what you guys wrote. The best one is Dick's, "Bruce gets screwed". That is what I'm figuring and why I started this topic. I will always know that I did my best and that I did most of the work, I didn't pay someone to do it for me.

Just so you guys know, I've been Judging for many years but have never had a car ready to have Judged. So this is why the Central and Flint meets will be so special to me. I'm really looking forward to seeing everyone and meeting a lot of new friends.

Thanks for all your thoughts and I’ll report what happens with my spark plugs. (PS – 34 master used K-10’s plugs, if I didn’t note this I might get marked down for not having G-12’s)

The above statement is very true. That is also what I said on this forum about a year or so ago. I made the statement that when someone is "pulled from the parking lot" to judge a class he knows absolutely nothing about or if an individual knows nothing about judging, it is unfair to the person judging the car and it is unfair to the car owner as well. After saying that I was criticized here on CC II for making such a frivolous statement.

Good luck with your spark plugs Brucie.

I think it would be great to have the TAs be the Team Captain of the judging team they are the advisor on.

Hey Back Roads, You are very right about that. 5 years ago a Grand Junction, Chip was the team captain for the 31's and he was a great advisor and leader.

Also I should point out one more thing, by the time I get to Flint I hope to be a Senior for Judging.

Bruce

In "Oldie's" comments he mentioned about the judging forms being gone by the time they got to Bruce's car. I have often wondered why the forms are run off before a class is completly finished. That is say Preservation, SR and JR classes, within the year classes. By holding the entire class until finished this type of situation could be corrected.

Would it be beneficial for the judging teams to meet; possibly the day before; to review the technical manuals that are available the day of judging? This might help educate the non experienced with a given age car, so that they judge fairly.

Having the TAs might be an option if the TAs attended the meet. Many of them will not!

I proposed a special award system several years ago. A person would apply for detailed "judging" several months before a meet, knowledgeable people recruited to do the evaluation and some time during the meet (but separate from regular judging) have the evaluation. That system would provide time for the evaluators to review specific information on the subject vehicle, bring literature or references to the evaluation and ultimately recognize the best examples of either preservation or restoration. That is the only way I know of to do a reasonable comprehensive evaluation of a Vintage Chevrolet. It might not be as comprehensive as NCRS judging and have published standards but would be much better than the current VCCA system. The proposal has only received criticism and why it is a bad idea from the "powers".

When, then, is he/she judging? Seems very unfair to the owner.




My mistake, should read .... why, then, is he/she judging?

Well,for certain I am getting educated on "judging". Still, I'm of the belief the owner of his pride and joy has exhausted himself making certain all is A-1 with his restoration. Then comes the judge who may not be nearly as familiar with the vehicle, yet he has the final word. If I'm understanding this correctly, I can understand why folks have negative feelings about the judging process. I think it's a sad situation. But I'm not familiar enough or smart enough to offer a bullet proof solution.

As I have posted several times before, I have never had VCCA judges take enough points from any VCCA vehicle I have had judged. Yes they occasionally took points off for items that were correct but they also missed many more they could have taken. I know that my reaction to VCCA judging is not typical but much less stressful. I also have never felt the result was in any way a comment on my ability or knowledge or integrity. Have done way too much judging for that.

The vehicle is an inanimate object and judges are doing the best they can. I appreciate their efforts. Would you want the VCCA to not send back judging sheets? That would eliminate some of the bad feelings because the owner would not have the data. But on the contrary would not get a clue to what might need improvement. I think that the VCCA is right in returning the forms even if it leads to some more consternation.

To go along with what Chipper has stated there have been things on our cars that VCCA Judging has missed. To compare AACA Judging to VCCA Judging I have had three cars receive 1st Jr, 1st Sr, and Preservation in VCCA and receive 2nd Jr in AACA. I believe 2nd Jr was the correct award for these vehicles. The Anniversary Meet is the only time there are enough vehicles in a class to have real competition in the classes. I believe the points per Award needs to be adjusted in VCCA.

There are several other things that need to be adjusted within the VCCA judging as well....including comparison judging and the wrong engine rule.

I thought all vehicles to be judged were supposed to be driven onto the judging field. Is that true?

"I thought all vehicles to be judged were supposed to be driven onto the judging field. Is that true?"

YES, but there are exceptions to the rule on occasion. It's the Chief Judges call. If you are referring to the '28 coupe that was towed to and from the field at Flint, that was an exception. That particular vehicle experienced an engine failure during the 4 cyl - 6 cyl tour held in Houghton Lake just prior to the Flint event. The same vehicle was allowed access to the Judging field at the Mini Central Meet in Dundee on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday preceeding the Anniversary Meet.

Vehicles need to be driven through field entrance and on to the judging field. In extenuating circumstances the Chief Judge can allow non-running vehicles onto the field. One case in Flint was a '28 Chevy that loosened a rod on an immediately preceding VCCA event. It could have been driven but with probable additional damage to the engine so was allowed to be placed on the field.

When I questioned the fact that the vehicles were to be driven onto the judging field it was in reference to the vehicles receiving awards that were in the museum or heritage center.

This is not sour grapes on my part as my car was in Drivers Participation but what about the vehicles that did follow the rules. The rules should be the same for everyone.

The rules WERE the same for everyone!

Part of "the deal" with the Sloan Museum for the use of their real estate for our Show Field (and free admission to the Museum for all registered VCCA members) was that they wanted some vintage Chevys to be displayed inside the Museum for a few weeks. Some local Michigan members were willing to do so. A pretty fair exchange!

Those cars that were displayed inside went through Field Entrance Check a week or so before the Meet began. They had fire extinguishers inside while there were in the Sloan, and their Owner's Manuals, and tools (for pre-1949). They were also photographed like the rest. They were also judged by the same Judging Teams that did the other cars in their Class. For example, I happened to be judging the 490 Class, and we judged the 1916 490 Roadster inside the Museum along with the other 490s on the Show Field. (and we enjoyed coming into the air conditioned museum to do it!)

All of this was pre-planned way in advance with the Chief Judge and others, to accommodate the Sloan Museum's request for cars, without penalizing or giving any special treatment to those particular few cars. All the particulars above were addressed.

Now with respect to the '28 that spun a rod on the 4 Cylinder Tour: the car was entered in the 4 Cylinder Tour, immediately followed by the 48th Central Meet in Dundee MI, immediately followed by the Anniversary Meet. Therefore, when that car left its home in eastern Pennsylvania in early July, it was continuously engaged in non-stop VCCA events, and was obviously in fine running and touring condition. The mechanical damage occurred while actively participating in those events, and could not be reasonably repaired on the spot.

It has always been the VCCA's policy that damage incurred during or on the way to an event is to be disregarded with respect to judging the damaged car. This includes mechanical damage that yields the car undriveable. This specific car requested an exemption from being driven and thus doing additional engine damage. The Chief Judge reviewed the situation and all the particulars, and allowed the car to continue to participate, which was appropriate. It was still required to pass Field Entrance Check, also. I have been at many Meets where we have judged cars with similar circumstances - wrecked, trailer wrecked, catastrophic mechanical failure while participating, and we always have allowed the owner the privilege to participate in spite of his/her bad fortune. There were other cars that were pushed through Field Entrance Check that were suffering from overheating while waiting in line, vapor lock, etc, due to the nearly 100 degree temperatures (and modern gas!). All of these cars were known to obviously be good running cars that suffered short term problems and were allowed to proceed, as they should be.

Don Williams
Prez

Thank you Don for a very good explanation of the circumstances of the vehicles. Information well shared. Thanks to you and all the committee for a job well done.

Will the Judging Results be posted on the Chat Site or printed in the G & D like it has for past Anniversary issues? I hope it will be in the Anniversary Issue.

Hello all, I am entering the results into the database now. Please be patient. I have the Central Meet forms to finish up first and then to the Anniversary Meet forms. I also have the participation cards from both meets to enter in. I will take care of the forms first and send them out in the mail and then attend to the cards. Just wanted you to know where we are with them. I will post a general summary of the results on this site.

Steve,
I really appreciated your post for two reasons. One, most don't have a clue how much work needs to be done just to get the results entered, status checked and recorded and then the forms mailed back to the entrants. Then the results need to be sent to numerous people who either need to know, publish the results or do something else as a result of them. Double checking judging status is but one of them. So is recognizing those that have reached milestones.

Your dedication to the Judging process over the past years, despite "chuckholes in the road" speaks volumes to your character. BIG THANK YOU! Steve.

Thanks Chip for the kind words. The Central Meet forms are done and in the mail today. Here is the breakdown of general data:
Vehicles entered from 18 different states.

72 Vehicles Judged or Certified

10 CDPC certified 6 ovals, 3 2nd certificates, 1 did not certify
12 HPOCF certified, 3 ovals, 3 tabs,3 boards and 3 miniatures;

50 vehicles went through class judging 19 1st Jr., 13 1st Sr.,2 Preservation Boards, 12 Preservation Miniatures, 4 2nd Jrs.,1 did not advance in Senior class due to under 950.
We also had 6 members who received advancement as a multiple award. That is, they scored 975 or above so both in class were able to advance. That is the most we have had at one meet so far.

We also had 33 gold certificates issued (above 975) 10 silver and 4 bronze certificates sent.

OK, now for the Anniversary Meet forms. I have started on those today. Will keep you posted.

Excellent job of digesting all the information from the Central Meet. I have already received two awards. I consider the results to be timely. Would take the average person that long to just deciper the hand writing.

Keep up the good work Steve.

Ok VCCA members, here is the results of the 50th Anniversary Meet:

So far in 2011 we have judged, or certified 430 vehicles

There were 304 judged or certified at the 50th Anniversary Meet

CDPC Total= 50 32 Ovals were awarded which means that we had a lot of first time CDPC entries. This was a great turnout for CDPC. 8 2nd certifications, 4 3rd certifications, 1 4th certification and 1 Tab. Five vehicles did not certify CDPC.

HPOCF Total= 55 26 Ovals which is, again, great! 7 tabs awarded, 7 boards given and 11 miniatures issued. Four vehicles did not certify HPOCF.

Class Judging Total= 199 1st Jr.= 38 1st Sr.= 19 Preservation Boards= 23 Preservation miniatures= 56

2nd Jr.= 20 3rd Jr.= 7 2nd Sr.= 19 3rd Sr.= 2 Remember that a 1st Sr. must achieve a score of 950 or above. The senior vehicles that do not achieve 950 remain in senior status and do not advance to preservation. Junior vehicles that achieved first junior with point scores below 950 need to be aware of this particular policy that at the next meet the score will have to be at least 950.

One preservation vehicle scored below 901 which is a warning.

Fifteen first time junior vehicles received a VCCA "participation" award and did not place.

All in all a very positive experience for a large number of members. I will be mailing the forms out this week. I will let you know when they are mailed out. Congratulations to all of the award winners and particpants. The meet was a great success. Thanks especially to Steve Leunig, all the judges, tabulators, field entrance teams and runners who made it all work!

Hello all, we need to add one more to the Anniversary Meet total. and it was a 1st Jr. as well. I will be mailing out the forms tomorrow in the mail.

I can't open the new judging manual - only the first 3 pages will upload. So I can't check my questions:
- I didn't think there was 2nd and 3rd Senior?
- Is there now no point difference between Junior, Senior and Preservation - in other words, the minimum score for all classes is now 950; no more tiers?
- Do all Repeat Preservations now need to score 950 or risk losing all past awards?

Ralph, you ask good questions. I would contact the webmaster, Bill Barker and let him know you can't download the manual. Officially there is only one award in the Senior level, that is 1st Senior. If you do not score 950 or above you remain in Senior status and do not advance to Preservation status. To achieve a 1st Junior you need to score 901 or above. For those who get their judging forms back and scored below 950 but were still awarded 1st Junior it would be advisable to evaluate from the points deducted and the comments by judges where you can improve your vehicle so that it acheives the minimum 950.
To be awarded a preservation award you need to acheive a 901 or above.

Personally, I feel that returning to the second and third senior award would be beneficial for three reasons, one is that it helps the tabulators know the rank order of points acheived in a particular class. Secondly, and most importantly, it avoids confusion to the owner as to where they placed in the class, especially when there were a large number of vehicles in the class. We had some senior vehicles that scored above 950 but could not reach the 975 points to automatically advance and did not advance due to other vehicles scoring higher. It would be nice to know if you were second or third, in my opinion. Lastly, why are we being stingy with our awards? It might be a "feel good" measure but what's wrong with giving a second or third place in senior? We know we do not advance to preservation but at least we receive some recognition for our efforts? Instead there is confusion and a handshake or a commemorative dash plaque, if that. I think we need to approach the Board and consider restoring the 2nd and 3rd Senior. Reference to Senior award is at the top of page 66 in the 2011 Judging Manual.

Keep in mind any vehicle that scores above 925, regardless of placement at the meet, receives a National Bronze award from the National VCCA Organization. If you score above 950 you receive a Silver certificate and above 975 you receive a Gold certificate. There is recognition given.

Again, a personal opinion, I am in favor of the 950 level of acheievment. I have some concerns about Junior level at 901 and then senior at 950. There will be some disappointment when junior vehicles do not reach the 950. At the other end you ensure that Preservation means something when vehicles entering in at that level reached 950.

I have been recording the forms for many years now and we have improved tremendously on our consistency. I have seen data where members have attended two or three meets in one year and most all of their scores are within 3 points or less from one meet to another.

We are always trying to improve the judging and certification process. Your discussion and input is important to that goal.

Steve, Thanks for the clarifications. Looks like I misundertsood the previous posting with regards to the points required for each tier - 901 for 1st Junior, 950 for Senior and then back to 901 for Preservation. I misread everything had been raised to a 950 point mimimum.

In a sense, it does seem a shame about no 2nd or 3rd Senior. AACA is the same. At Hershey last year going for Senior the first time, I didn't make it and walked away with nothing except wondering. Received Senior at the Southeastern Fall Meet in Bristol TN last weekend, so that's now water under the bridge. Will be trying for Preservation at Hershey this year.

All-in-all, I've been very pleased with VCCA judging. With the 39, I received 2nd Junior in 2005, 1st Junior in 2009, Senior in 2010 and Preservation at Flint. While there were a few judge's "mistakes" over the years, I have to admit there have been a few missed items, too. So in the end I think it all evened out. The main thing is I feel my efforts with the car have been recognized and rewarded - so I feel good.

RalphL
If all VCCA members who had their vehicles judged had the same attitude about judging we would all be better off. I have also had the same experience. The judges nearly always miss many more points than they take off in error. I count my luck stars each time that happens.

As an aside I agree with Steve that VCCA judging is getting more consistent. Never will be perfect but progress (as Tony the Tiger would say) is GREAT.

FYI, the Anniversary Meet forms are truly "in the mail."

Steve, Thanks for all your hard work and that of the judging committee and the volunteer judges - I'm sure it can certainly seem to be a thank-less and no-win effort at times. I also have to be honest and agree with Chipper in that I'm sure the judges have missed more points than ever mistakenly taken off.

Cheers!

I have a question..... I didn't attend the awards banquet in Flint. I did however receive a letter for me to send in $11 for shipping for a crystal cube trophy. I did & it is very nice & much appreciated.

My question is how were cars chosen for these awards & do they all say 1st place or ???

TIA

Ralph, thanks for the support of the judging program and your honesty about the areas of the program that continually need to be revised and looked at. The biggest problem with the VCCA judging program is that it is an all volunteer program of members who are willing to put in the time to help make sure that our meets are run well. I urge all of our members to read the 2011 Judging Manual from cover to cover so that we all understand that nobody knows every thing about all things Chevrolet and we need to help and cooperate with each other to make sure that we fairly and consistently evaluate the efforts of our members to preserve and/or restore our Chevrolets as close to how the factory delivered the product to the buying public. I can tell you we have improved leaps and bounds in the last ten years in regard to how we accomplish that goal.

TIA, you will be receiving your Anniversary Judging forms very soon in the mail. Please look at the awards boxes in the bottom right-hand side of your form. Let us know if there are any more questions after you review your two Chevelle forms.

Steve

I still feel like a newbie when it comes to judging awards. My first time judged '34 received 924 points at Flint which was more than I expected. But my "Judging Results" form does not indicate any award. I understood a 1st Junior was 900-1000, 2nd: 800-899, and 3rd: 700-799. Could someone explain? Thanks ahead for any replies.

That is because other "JR" cars in your class had more points They would have had more than 924 and up to 1000

It is best for you to get a copy (or read online) of the VCCA Judging Manual. All the information is between the covers. It may take a bit of reviewing to understand it all. Most is straight forward but a few sections are a bit complicated and confusing on first blush.

Chevgene & Chipper. I do have the Judging Manual in front of me and now understand. But I am disappointed that my car was in competition with other cars. Since the VCCA promotes preservaton and accurate restoration I thought each car was judged and given awards on it's own merit.

So it looks to me now that a judged car could score above 900 numerous times but never receive an award since others in that class have higher scores, while another car in a different class might get an award, with even lower scores, due to it's competition or lack of. Is that correct?

I received my judging form in the US Mail today. Thank You Steve for getting these out so fast.

Thank you to the judging team that judged my car. I truely beleive this is the most accurate that my car has been judged. What I lost points for was very accurate and I agree 100%. There were things deducted for this time that were never deducted before. I will have to take a look at one area to fully understand the deduction. However, the minimal point deduction for that item I have no problem with at all. I think this group of judges were very fair and knowledgeable of the era. Thanks.

Job well done judging team ! Re 1948 Class.

YoungFalcon, you are correct. Another side of the coin is that you could be the only car in a class and by your score you might receive a second or third place or no award.

I also received my judging sheet today. Thanks Steve for the quick work.

Youngfalcon,
The Anniversary Meets are special in several ways. As far as judging is involved the number in a given class varies meet to meet. Unfortunately, in your case specifically 1934, the number of Junior cars was unusually high. In fact it was the first time in my 40+ years that there were more '33 and '34 cars than 1931 and 1932.

In my mind there are several ways to look at your situation. The result could give an incentive to improve your car so it does better next time. Or you can get your dobber down and say the deck was stacked against you and it ain't fair (my pappy told me innumerable times "Life ain't fair!). Or that it was the luck of the draw and you didn't get the best hand. Or you could look at it as there were several examples of '34 cars that you don't often see and how lucky you were to even get that close to them. Or just say that the VCCA Judging isn't fair so you won't ever attend another meet. I prefer to look at similar situations as a learning experience. How about you?

I would like to add my thanks to all the judging volunteers and especially the team that did the 1934's. It was obvious they took their responsibility very seriously and they did a thorough job with each car. I feel my car was judged fairly if a bit leniently. I guess I will have to be satisfied that it scored enough points to earn a 1st Junior. Given the competition component, it looks like that's not likely to ever happen.

The 50th Anniversary Meet was the first time in history that at an Anniversary Meet, each class had 2 different forms of judging going on.
The first is the VCCA Judging that happens at all National VCCA Meets. That means each vehicle can move thru the judging process with Junior Class, Senior Class, Preservation Boards, HPOCF and CDPC.
The second thing that happened at Flint was that EACH class also had 3 other winners. Namely First, Second and Third Place. So if there were 5 cars in a particular class, 3 of the vehicles would get a "special" recognition as either First Place, Second Place and Third Place. We actually had one class that received 2 ( two ) First Place trophies. That is because both vehicles received 1000 point scores.

dtm

Chipper,
I didn't see your post before my last one. I fully agree with what you are saying. My main goal in going to Flint and having it judged was to find out what mistakes I had made and what I needed to correct. From the judging, looking at the other cars, and talking with my TA, Dave Sylvain, I learned a lot. So from that perspective the trip was a big success. I now have a list of things (all small) to correct. Some I will and some probably not.

As for the "not fair" comment, I did not say, or do not think that there is anything unfair about what took place so please don't assume that is my attitude. As I said in the previous post I am satisfied that the '34 received enough points to earn an award. Given my total lack of experience (two years ago) with old Chevies plus limited mechanics and restoration experience, I am very satisfied that I "completed" and took a car to a National Meet and scored enough points to earn the highest award possible.

The second paragraph was written more to point out the types of reactions that people have when they get their judging results. I didn't intend it to read like it was your personal opinion only those that I have observed or heard about. My apologies that it might have been construed to be your reaction or opinion.

I read here that, I think, it was three vehicles received 1000 points at Flint. Can anyone tell me if these vehicles received Best of Show Awards?