How were the manifolds painted on a 1934 Master? Were they painted seperately from the engine and then installed on it? Or, were they painted after being installed on the engine? Were the exhaust and intake manifolds painted together? How would I paint the attaching hardware? What color was the transmission painted? I am going to buy my engine paint from the Filling Station.

Both manifolds were painted on the engine, therefore all of the attaching hardware was painted as well. The paint on the exhaust manifold burned off shortly thereafter. The transmission case was black.

Sorry Mr. JunkYardDog but the transmission case was not painted.It was uusually covered with gear and engine oil so it did not rust.

In what year did Chevrolet stop painting the transmission cases?

I have one factory photograph of a 1934 chassis and it clearly shows that the transmission was painted black, that's why I stated that the tranny was painted black. However, that does not mean that this was the case for all transmissions since different factories did different things. At any rate, is it possible that they came both ways, and when were transmissions no longer painted at all??

Don't rely too heavily on factory photos. Not only did different plants do things differently, but having been in the business, I know you can't rely 100% on these photos. Items are often times "enhanced" for a photo, either to satisfy lighting conditions or to make the item look more appealing for a number of reasons. A photo,for example, could have been taken for an Engineering presentation to management and some of the items could have been changed later for production / ecconomic purposes. They may be correct or they may have been taken to advance someone's agenda. Just food for thought. The only "sure" way, I guess, is to audit all of the original, unrestored cars that are left, and try and establish a standard. That's why a Preservation class is so important and should be encouraged before they're all the originals are restored, over-restored or "creatively" restored.

My 2½¢


-Bob

Hi Bob! You are absoultely correct, and I feel the same way. However, original documentation (factory photos included) have to be used as part of the original research and documentation if totally all original cars cannot be found. And, original documentation should be used (to a certain extent)as a basis for correctness since it did come from the factory. For example, the photo that I have is a photo of a factory chassis just as it came off of the assembly line. Runs in the paint, and, well, you know.....you can tell that this photo wasn't enhanced. Does this photo make everything gospel? Nope, since more photos and other documentation would be needed to either prove or disprove the transmission color issue.

Does anyone out there have more original documentation to help us out here? Also, in what year were transmission cases and covers no longer painted??

Don't know if this helps or not. I have a '33 Eagle Coach, which has never been shown HPOCF, because it has been repainted and reupholstered about 20 years ago. However, mechanically it was very, very original when I brought it home, although I have since detailed out under the hood. For instance, the casting dates on the intake manifold, exhaust manifold, head, and block are all within the same week! So she's never been apart and scattered out, for sure. It was a Norwood Ohio built car, that went to California prior to WWII and spent basically its whole life in the Los Angeles area until 2001, when it came to Florida. it had 76,000 miles at that point.

I say all this to give you an idea of the fact that it is pretty much unmolested and stock. Still had the tools under the seat. The last California owner I got it from had owned it since the mid-1960's, and he was 90+ years old when I bought it.

When I got it, I serviced everything and have put it on the road as my "Driver." (Skippy, this is the one you did the water pump for.)

The point is - the transmission Definitely, Positively has old Black paint remaining on it. (Bell-housing is gray.)

I have not had time to review my "34 film strips but on a quick search I found a picture of a chassis, taken at the Chicago Worlds Fair assembly line, and the transmission is black.This may have been done to make things appear "neater" as it was a spectator event.The 1934 shop manual shows the transmission attached to the engine in the car.The floor boards are removed and the transmission isn't black.There again this could have been a preproduction car or ???.Looked back at the info. that I gathered when I was the '34 tech. advisor and I have unpainted listed but don't remember how I determined it.Have great pictures from 1937 and up and all are unpainted.Perhaps 1935MasterTechAdvisor will give some feed back.Also Ron L.,the present '34 tech.advisor could give us a shot as he has an ultra low milage '34.....

Cool! That would help. I just finished checking out all of my '34 film strips as well, and the transmissions that I found in the photos all appear to be black. Here again, maybe some factories painted them while other factors didn't. And,it gets even more complicated. I just checked a detailed photo that I have of a complete 1937 chassis, and in that photo the transmission is definitely black! However, on some other photos photos that I have of the transmissions on the 1938 thru 1941 Chevrolets (including closeup photos of the transmissions as well), at first glance all of the transmissions in those photos appear to be unpainted. But, upon a closer look, the transmissions actually appear to be painted engine color instead. This is getting weird!

This isn't getting wierd--We are wierd wondering what color a part was painted 70 years ago When I removed the trans. from my '34 years back-and replaced the case there was no evidence of any paint.The car was original but lived in MO. and was caked with red mud from years back.My '39 was a low milage "virgin" and showed no evidence of paint.The drive line paint they did use on the torque tube and rear axle housing was of poor quaity and seldom lasted more than a few years on most cars.----continue on

Hey Guys!

I've been under Ron L's car and remember it being Black, the 4,200 mile car. I'll call him tonight if that is OK and see what he has to say.

Chevgene, now I know whom you are and why you have all that good information. You also had a 34 Town Sedan at one time right?

As to my 34 when we started working on it the transmission had black paint on it.

I don't know who I am and its a Sport Sedan and I bought it in 1970 and still own it.Have owned it almost half my life- :Yes, it would be good to hear from Ron and its sounds as if I am wrong on it not being painted.Don't tell any of the people that I told its was unpainted years Did we meet at one time or did I just give you bad info too?

If this adds anything, my '37 Sports coupe (S/N 2GA1220016) was, when I purchased it, an unrestored original 40k car, made in Tarrytown, NY in December (I assume December of 1936, as the '38 models would have been in production by December of '37). The transmission had no evidence of paint anywhere and it didn't appear the tranny had ever been out of the car.

Not to hi-jack the thread, but as an interesting side note, the battery cover is wood on my car and secured by screws / weldnuts. The metal snap-in cover must have been added sometime after my car was made.

Finally, JunkYardDog: I didn't imean to imply your photo or any factory photo should be ignored, just that it needs collaboration. Hope I didn't offend - I have every respect for your knowledge of anything Chevrolet!

-Bob

Hey Bob! Of course not......no offense taken my friend! As I mentioned earlier, I agree with you. Even though I put original documentation at the top of the list, one has to have more than one piece of documentation on the same item to collaborate and to really set a trend. I don't consider "show displays" or the like as part of any certified documentation since that literature is about "show pieces" and not factory production models. The photos that I was referring to in my earlier posting was of factory production models, which, I feel, is as important as low mileage all original cars.

It's very interesting that your 1937 tranny didn't have any paint on it, and yet the production photo that I have of a 1937 chassis definitely shows that the tranny is black....without a doubt. So, your information about your '37 Sports Coupe reconfirms my belief that different factories did different things since your car was made in Tarrytown, and my photo of the 1937 chassis was taken in Flint.

Thanks for the update Bob!

A few years back there were a series of articles published in the G & D showing early Chevrolet vehicle photographs with a super-imposed grid overlay. In those articles three views were shown, front, rear, and one side. Those photographs were originally part of a grouping of photographs taken by GM Photographic and each group consisted of Front, Rear, left and Right sides, Underbody, Left and Right sides of the engine compartment (approx 7). Those photographs were of Production built vehicles and were obtained without Division participation.

Those grid lined photographs are by far the best documentation of how a Production vehicle of that vintage was configured for at least one period during the production run. I won't argue that things may have changed later or at other assembly plants but they at least represent what was correct for one location at one point in time.

I don't have any of these photographs, but having seen some at a Swap Meet once, I'm sure they are out there. If you can find them and the price is within reason you should pick them up. How those photographs may have gotten into circulation is another story.

A little background: Prior to the re-arrangement of GM in the mid-eighties, each division had their own test labs and did their own Road Test durability work. There was another area called Engineering Staff and they had no direct Division ties, answering to Corporate management through a totally different chain of command. ES consisted of GM Research, GM Photographic, Wind tunnel facility, Barrier Test, Emission Certification and a lot of the other support areas periodically needed by the Divisions. They owned and operated (on paper anyway) the Proving Ground Facilities and the Divisions paid a monthly rental fee plus a fee per mile for the Proving Ground Road system usage. ES people were the thinkers and worked on Research items for future vehicle usage. They also developed much of the test equipment used by the Divisions in the developmemt their vehicles.

Why is this Engineering Staff of interest to us? Because for several years ES would purchase and evaluate several Production models from each Division as well as a few selected Vehicles from the Competition. In the 60's, those vehicles were purchased from Dealer stock in an effort to keep the evaluation pure. Prior to that, the vehicles were delivered from the assembly plants directly to ES but that was changed because it was felt that the Divisions might be providing selected/tweeked samples. It was from this type of activity that the Grid Lined Photographs came from. I don't know for sure, but I'll bet those G & D Ride Reports published earlier of vehicles during the thirties came from the ES activities and not from Chevrolet files.

That's enough on this subject. Probably much more that anyone cared to know.

Hey Oldie! Thanks for the history lesson and I, for one, found it extremely interesting, especially the part about the production photographs and the production models being purchased from dealer stock for evaluation. Your treatment should clear a lot of things up for most of us. Thanks for taking the time to post that information!

Refering to the proving ground engine and chassis pictures, I have noticed the following-1937 pictures -transmission appears to be black but the torque tube almost looks unpainted. 1938 transmission unpainted and t. tube unpainted. 1939 trans. and t. tube look unpainted. 1940 trans. unpainted but U joint ball black and t . tube black. 1941 trans. unpainted and t. tube black.If these are actual production car pictures there is almost no set rule in the thirtys.I do remember the touque tubes being painted in 1950 and the area just behind the U joint ball rear seal was unpainted to allow for travel .The comments made by the proving grounds seemed unbiased in their reviews at that time.Intresting though as to how the cars were "selected".Your input was very intresting, Oldie...Thank You

Hey Chev Nut! I have found just about the same as you did in most of those photos, especially where the torque tubes are concerned. However, on the closeups of the back of the engine and the transmission areas, in some of my photos the tranny appears to be engine color instead of being unpainted. But hey........everyone knows that Junkyard Dogs are color blind!!!

Yes, I noticed that also but I think its the cast iron color.The engine and transmissions came from different plants and I have never seen evidence of gray overspray on a transmission.It was eveident that the engine was painted with the bell housing on.Would be intresting if the tranny was bolted to the housing with paint on the mating surfaces.This could have caused an alignment problem.I'm sure that I have other pictures but when your retired there arn't enough hours in the day.

Just got off the Phone with Ron L. and talked with him about the transmission in his Low Mile car. It is defiantly BLACK! Just thought you all would like to know.

Great thread, you guys have been busy today!!! My colection of literature seems to lack any good "real production" pictures of the transmission, seem to only have "show" pictures that look painted. I have always advised that the transmission was painted Black. I own a '35 Master Coach made in Baltimore with 74k original miles and it's painted black.

I think JunkYardDog is correct with the different plant, different method theory.

Clear as mud !!!

My 1934 Master transmission case is painted black. It is a 40,000 mile mostly original car, built in Tarrytown, NY in early April 1934. I have also been in contact with the surviving relatives of the dealer and have just received a videotape made from their home movies taken in the '30's showing the front of the dealership with 30's Chevrolets driving in and out! How cool is that!

That is way cool!!!

Wow, that sounds great. Wouldn't it be nice to go back to the thirties and spend a day at a dealership......If the trans, case is painted black is the cover black too???I'll be wanting to check mine soon....Intresting note as far as different factories doing things different ways.The westcoast '34 Masters had two stripes on the wide belt moulding and the Central and Eastern cars had three.At one time I also heard that westcoast cars had engine gray fan blades.What color is the breather pipe on these low milage -original cars.The Proving ground pictures ,which are in black and white,make the breather look as if its engine color.

ChevNut, the breather tube is engine color-I'll get back to you on the fan and trans cover color-most of the car's pinstriping is still there yet also, with the three stripes on the beltline-(Gold Bronze)

My breather tube was Black when I took the engine a part! I on the west coast! Also the fan was gray. Funny!

On my StLouis car both items were black as were they on a friends Janesville car

Has anyone ever contacted the GM retirement department or the auto unions to see if we could get the names/addresses of people who worked the Chevy lines in the 30's? I know some of this information is not available to the public, but a lot is available now. I bet some of the union or GM people would like to help, maybe putting something in their mailing about old photos. Does GM/UAW send out a newsletter to retirees?

I bet there are a lot of photos in family albums of "dad at work", etc. I know a lot of them would be in the 'Great dealership in the sky' but the families and the photos would still exist.

Just 'brainstorming' here to try to find documentation for the cars.

I'm afraid that they wouldn't know what cemetary to find them in unfortunatly.There again you would be going by memory with no documentation.Also I,m sure that GM didn't allow the union or anyone else to take pictures.Probably the best assembly line pictures are in our hands-that is the various collectors that have had intrest over the years.Trouble too is that these old photos are in black and white and that along with the poor quality make colors difficult to verify.