While searching for info on '31 Chev's, I came across the Document "Chevrolet-US and Canadian Production Figures, 1912-1931" by Kaufman and Hayward et al, dated 2002.
It is a fascinating read for those interested in a brief history of Chevrolet during this period, their many plants, Fisher Body plants as well as considerable stats on production numbers, casting and serial numbers etc. One interesting thing for me was that Fisher Bodies were made for Canadian Cars in a Toronto mill/plant, and later Oshawa but only through 1927 model year, after that they were made in USA, meaning if this is correct, that '28 on bodies should be fully interchangeable between US and Canadian Cars.
But that is not why I am in this thread.
While going through it (and I do not know if it has accepted credibility or not among the veterans), I thought about this "imperial landau/convertible landau thread" herein referred to as Imp-L. The document shows the Imp-L starting in 1927 (no production figure given) and carrying through to some point in the 1929 production run (Shows 202 Imp-L cars were built in 5 week period Nov24-Dec31 1928). While there are no production figures for 1927/1928, the data for 1929 models indicates serial # 12AC-10774 was a Convertible Landau "one of 296 built".
Later in total Chevrolet production figures for 1929, Imp-L's are totaled at that elusive 300 number. Phaetons are at about 8,000
Earlier threads have tried several methodologies to arrive at an approximation of how many Imp-L's may have been built, largely based on anecdotal observations.
From my perspective the model was clearly intended to be marketed to a somewhat exclusive crowd, the mayors, politicos rich folk etc. However, those folk had access to Caddies, Lincolns, Big Chryslers, Buick's, Packards, etc, etc, so they problably did not show up to buy these.
During the 2-year period of '30/'31, only about 2600 Phaeton's were sold and about 9500 standard roadsters.
The point I am suggesting is that if as many as several thousand Imp-L's were made (some suggest 8,000), then it would be a very healthy model for production compared to volume of sales of some other models and not likely shut down. Unless of course there was no market for them. Since only 202 were built between Nov 24 and Dec 31 1928, and the model supposedly shut down by spring 1929, the number 300 may be a very defensible number.
As for my Car the Coach, I was surprised to see it was the most popuular in sales for both 1930 and 1931!

The 300 number has been pretty much proven as being false. And, if you go back and re-read the entire thread you will find that Ken Kaufman did further research and discovered that the convertible landau was made until June of 1929, which changed his earlier theory about the November-December 1928 production posted on his 2002 web-site indicating that only 202 were manufactured.

In an earlier posting Ken states the following:

I just presumed on my part that the 1929 Convertible Landau Sedan was discontinued in the January-February 1929 time period after building 202 units in December in Flint. This afternoon I tried to find out more data on when the Convertible Landau Sedan, Fisher Body Job No. 8860, was actually replaced in production with the 1929 Imperial Sedan, Fisher Body No. 8910, in mid July 1929. The last listing I found of the Convertible Landau Sedan was in the June 8th issue of The Literary Digest that reported over 600,000 6 cylinders sold in less then 5 months. This is also the last advert for the Sport Cabriolet which was illustrated with the top down at the beach in “Trianon Blue” color. The Literary Digest for July 6, 1929 announced the 900,000 6 cyl was sold, with the Imperial Sedan and Sport Coupe listed. Then in several newspaper adverts it was announced that the 1,000,000 6 cyl was built on Aug 5 in Flint and it was an Imperial Sedan which had just gone into production a few week before. Then I found an newspaper advert for Saturday August 3rd that announced the 950,000 6 cyl sold and two distinguished new models – the Imperial Sedan and the Sport Coupe [replaced the Sport Cabriolet which was not offered until the 1931 models.] So from the above it looks like the Convertible Landau Sedan was build into June 1929. On August 3rd it stated that samples would be sent to the 5000 Chevrolet dealers. Now the 8,000 number seems possible.
kenK

And now, based on body numbers and factory designation code letters found on several convertible landaus, that information also tends to support the 8,000 plus figure as well.

This is a really intriguing puzzle! His notes I read as referring to sales of the Imp-L model into June '29, not necessarily production ending then. Is it possible units were sitting in inventory (300 or 5,000) because they were not selling quickly?
Whatever prompted GM to discontinue the line (likely slow sales?), they would have decided to do so, and normally stopped production months prior to the final sales which would come from built-up inventory. Also, if the Imperial Sedan was the replacement model, a time lag in the production line would be needed to changeover between models (although admittedly the differences are not large).
I do not think that sales of 8,000 units in 6/8 months would lead GM to stopping the model mid-year. If the Nov-Dec production level of 40 such cars a week is extrapolated to June '29, the 30 week period would total 1200 Imp-L's.
The consensus seems to be that the model was likely not selling well enough, GM decided to end production early/mid-year, and the inventory (200 or thousand's) was sent out to dealers to sell, more likely as a clear-out(my interpretation) than as 'samples' since they did not plan to make anymore. I suspect the real number will remain a mystery for a while yet!
A fascinating topic, I've never seen one of these rare cars, and hope those who do have them are enjoying the cars and the mystery they have created.

Yep, this is an interesting puzzle and it is one that is great to talk about.

The convertible landau is not rare and many of us that have been in the hobby for years have seen plenty of them, and even today, there are lots of these models still around.

Initially, it was thought that the convertible landau was only produced in one factory for a month or two which would maybe support the 300 theory. However, now indications are that this model was built in most factories for a period of almost 8 months. And, with 5,000 dealers getting samples of this model you can't stretch "300" examples that far. Also, we now know that evidence indicates that the convertible landau was made in more than one factory. So, as an example, at 40 cars per week with an 8 month production in 9 factories, that would be about 11,520 models produced.

There is a convertible landau here on CC II that has a body number that exceeds 8,000 and it was built in the Kansas City factory, so that would further indicate that at least 8,000 convertible landaus were built in the Kansas City factory alone.

The only real mystery here is how the bogus 300 figure got started in the first place.

I suppose a second mystery is if sales volume was as high as 8,000+, why did they discontinue the model? Oh well, I must get back to my old Coach (not couch!!)

GM has done other weird things over the years...including discontinuing various models of vehicles and years later bringing them back again.

re. JunkYardDog's comment on the bogus 300 number, that was the number listed for Flint production, no other assembly plants were shown to have built the Imperial Landau for 1929. This information was included in a copy of 1929 - 1932 Chevrolet first car and truck serial numbers for each month for each assembly location in the US, and first engine numbers for each month from Flint. This information is assumed to be incomplete for this reason, and because it appears to be incomplete for 1932. This was sent to me by Lew Clark about 12 years ago when I was asking members for serial numbers. Remember the 1929-32 Chevrolet Serial Number Survey mailed to hundreds of VCCA members? Response from members was good, response from club officials was not so good. At the time, Lew asked me to keep the info confidential, to use it only to check the numbers sent to me, and I have continued to do so.

Imagine the volume of information we would have today if that serial/engine no. survey had been continued. But it was not continued because there was never a reply to my request to include it in the Tech Advisor program.

That makes sense as to where the bogus "300" figure came from...and that information was obviously before it was discovered that the convertible landau was made in other factories and that the vehicle was made into June of 1929 as well.

By the way, the motor serial numbers by the month for 1929-32 have been on the Internet for several years, and the information shown is extremely interesting.

I have a '29 sales folder from Belgium, the language is Flemish. The Imperial Landau is called "De Convertible Landau Sedan" and the colors are not Crockett Brown and Mistino Gray. These '29s were fitted with shock absorbers, with what looks like canvas straps instead of steel links.

A US built 1929 Imperial Landau didn't get a second color combination. DuPont color info shows new color combinations starting July 1, 1929.

I've read all the posts with interest because we have had our Conv. Landau nearly twenty years and many miles. Our car is Canadian though,
Body 8860 General Motors Canada, Oshawa
job 1516
engine cast d 1 9 April Fools Day
could not make out the serial number and the car serial number is a reproduction.
I know of three similar cars in Ontario and Canuck cars are blue with gray upholstery, but I don't want to hijack this thread. Gary

Gary... You're not hijacking the thread, it's about your car!! You should post a picture, as I'm sure most have not seen a blue one, or even knew they were built that way.

Gary, I would like to know more about blue Canadian Imperial Landaus with gray interior because I will paint mine some colors other than Crocket Brown and Mistino Gray.

I just saw this on utube and thought I'd post it onto one of my favourite threads!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RL9V8mZqb90&feature=related

Thanks for the post Brewster, That 29 is a great find for restoration. A lot of work ahead of him though. They also had some other Chevy video's post their that were pretty cool.

Collectible Automobile Feb. 2011... 1929-1930 Chevrolet Feature... And finally a publisher has referenced the VCCA's theories (Ken Kauffman is quoted) on the true production numbers. All of their production charts show the 300, but there is now an * astrick * with the theories from this thread listed underneath. Oh... and some great pictures of '29-'30 Chevs. Two different '29 Landau convertibles. Some of our members cars are featured.

Cool! It's about time that at least one of the car publications makes an attempt to set the record straight regarding the false "300" production figure of the 1929 convertible landau.

Can you post here some of the theories that were listed in the article?

No new theories... just a rehash of this thread. It says 202 documented cars were built in Flint in the final weeks of 1928, and likely the thousands of dealers ordered many more in the next six months of production. It doesn't touch on the fact that this thread has uncovered cars built in other factories, or the fact that the bodies were built in Clevland. Another question I'd like to add to the mix... was the Colt Ave. factory that Ken mentions building bodies for only Chevrolet, or other GM's as well. Would this Pontiac body be built on the same line, and numerically sequenced within the Chevrolet body numbers? It must be a rare car as well...and I would think that fewer of these are around than the Chevrolet...

The Pontiac bodies would also be built in the same plant and have a separate body number. The Pontiac body ID number would also be different from the Chevrolet.

To add more wine to the water, one of the related videos shows another 29 I L Convertible (restoration) project, same color scheme (blue over black) which has the original cowl tag indicating General Motors of Canada Ltd, Oshawa, and showing Job # 8860, and body #980? What plant sent this body to Canada?
The ? remains why GM discontinued this line of vehicles. Were they poor sellers (supports the 300 number)? Did they have problems with the folding back mechanism leading to customer complaints? Did the depression doom the style?
As previously noted, although GM made lots of ill thought decisions over the years along with their good decisions, stopping production of a line of cars selling 10,000 or so a year seems odd.
In Europe during this period, a style of car like this was usually bought by wealthy guys who usually had a chauffeur driving while he and the wife sat in back enjoying the ride. They would likely have been seen by the average Joe as presumptuous.
Today we see them as unique and likely rare. So I guess we will never know the real story or #'s!

At this point, after seeing all of the different cowl and body numbers, I don't think that there is any evidence that supports the 300 number, other than hundreds of books that say 300! As for the car being cancelled, It was just a poor marketing idea, and the production numbers show that. If you build your company around selling the countries cheapest cars for the masses, it is hard to sell to that upscale consummer that wants something special. Like you said, it would take a chauffeur to drive to let the owner feel the satisfaction of the top down experience in this car. If someone wanted a convertible, the cabriolet or much cheaper roadsters and phaeton were available. People with chauffeurs were not driving Chevrolets! So how does that account for 8-9 thousand sales? First, there is always a part of the market that wants to own the newest and nicest thing going, and this was certainly it! This type of consumer preorders stuff, or is waiting at the dealership for roll-out day! Second, if it is true that GM sent one to every dealership, that means the cars had to be built. This beautiful car likely could sell itself in the window of a dealership, but given few colour choices and that weird convertible top, would you really order one? It seems more of an impulse buy! I think the 8000 sales likely came early in the year, and the cancellation came from a slow down in sales and feedback from the market. Just changing the roof to a fixed roof resulted in 42,000 sales for half a year of the Imperial sedan... a much more functional car, and apparently what the consumer was looking for!

My car as had sevral owners, and Ido not know how many times it has been counted my cowl tag is Detroit 8860 body1024 same as in front of seat in the wood. 6AC16159 on the tag, engine I think reads stampedis342700 cast:836409 L 11 0 23 Thanks Now you can shoot me out of the water. Mine is cream and bergany

Not really. After decades they stopped the production of the Camaro in 2003 and that was a popular car. Same with the Impala, Oldsmobile (Olds was around for 100 years), Pontiac and etc.



Here is yet another 1929 convertible landau that supports the documentation that more than 300 vehicles were made. This one was the 1,024 convertible landau made in the Oakland factory. The serial number on this vehicle also supports again that the convertible landau was made in other factories. Based on body and serial numbers from other numerous surviving convertible landaus, the 300 production figure is obviously bogus as many of us suspected for years.

Rip, interesting engine # L 11 0 23 in your '29 Landau, which if I am correct dates to December 11th 1930 (not sure what the 23 refers to). While not an original '29 engine, is it from a very late '30 or early '31 car or a early factory replacement? The bell housing/tranny changed 1930 versus 1931 so you might be able to tell from that if drive-train is matching numbers.

The block casting number of 836409 indicates that he has a 1931 engine.