I was wondering if I could get some help on a subject:
This weekend I'm going to look at an engine to replace my '31 engine. This engine supposedly was rebuilt by a fellow who passed away, went to another guy, then to this 3rd guy. The car was going to be restored, but this 3rd guy wants to put a 350 in the car, so he's selling the engine and trans together.
The engine is supposed to have been completely rebuilt by a competent builder and is supposed to have all new parts. He has the box with all the old pistons and parts that came out. It is also supposed to have a new clutch as well.
What should I look for when I go to look at this engine. The engine is is Charleston, South Carolina, which is 560 or so miles from me, so it's a pretty big trip. I know there's no way to know for sure, but perhaps some tips on things I should be aware of. The engine was supposed to have been rebuilt for the restoration, but never started because the car was never finished.

Thanks,
Brandon

Look for stains on the block and head. Turn the engine over with the starter(or at least by hand) to make sure it's freed and running. At least pull the oil pan if you can't pull the head. Look for shiny new stuff inside. Check the numbers (stamped and cast) on the block and head against listings posted on various sites. See if the seller has bills for parts or services on the engine.

Brandon-The cost of having that same engine professionally rebuilt with all new parts (pistons-pins-rings-valves-new babbits-valve train-oil pump-clutch components,machine shop labor, today would be somewhere in the neighborhood of $5000. Now the hard part,trusting what you are being told. A shop receipt including engine # would be nice-pulling the pan to have a look-see, hooking up a battery and crank to check compression. Is this a complete engine with manifolds, carb,gen,starter,water pump.bell housing and clutch assmy? Finally, COST.

hoppy

See if the engine has been hot tanked and painted. Also, remove the valve cover and check out the valve train and inspect for cleaninless. Look for all new gaskets as well.

Keep in mind that some engines that have been "rebuilt" were not rebuilt correctly or only superficial things were done.....and some engines were not rebuilt at all even though they are advertised as being rebuilt, so ask for receipts or proof that the engine has been rebuilt. If in doubt...back away!

I agree with Dean50. If you can't pull the pan try the valve cover. Should be clean, clean, clean! Try to look for new oil wicks (can see the ends most of the time).
If it has spark plugs, pull them. Are they clean, new? Turn over engine. You may want to take a hand crank.
Is there new paint? If not, is there dirty grease or oil anywhere?
Is the dipstick show clean oil?

Ron

Thanks for the response guys. I will be able to take the valve cover off and inspect it and hopefully the pan as well. It is a complete engine with all accessories except for carburetor. We have only spoken on the phone and he said that he had the receipts that came in a box with all the parts, but he has yet to find them. The engine apparently hasn't had oil in it, but he said they had poured and drained a lubricant in the engine from time to time. Thanks for the idea of taking an engine crank, I'll definitely do that as I wouldn't have thought of that.
I'm not sure what oil wicks are. What do they do and where should I look for them? Are there a few specific numbers I could check on the block which indicate it is in fact a '31 engine.
This engine has been sitting for quite some time, as it was apparently waiting for the car to be finished. The pictures show it to be green though I'm not sure why.

Here are the pictures I have of the engine:

The wick is a felt "tube" simuliar in appearance to a cigarette filter without the paper around it. It fits in the rocker arm and its purpose is to "wick" or allow oil to travel from the shaft that goes through the rocker arm to the end where the rocker arm contacts the pushrod in order to lubricate that area. Most of the wick is inside the rocker but usually you can see the end that makes contact with pushrod on the cupped end and the adjustment screw in the rocker. The wicks are usually a light color (white, light tan). Sometimes this item is left out of a engine re-build/head re-conditioning. Wicks can also breakdown/wear from long periods of use.

Ron

You have not mentioned the asking price. If it very low you can take the risk. If very high, take a buddy who is well versed in the older Chevrolet engines.

If you took a battery with you, even a 12-volt, you could spin it and take a compression check. Take a compression gage with you. If it has been sitting for a very long time it may not even turn over, with a 6-volt or a 12-volt.

From prior recommendations you need to pull valve cover and roll it over and remove the pan. Even a layman can tell if things look new or kinda fuzzy around the edges.

Based on the photos I would be very surprised if the engine was actually properly rebuilt. The major reason I write that is the green paint overspray on the clutch housing appears to be from a rattle can and indicates that the clutch housing was not removed from the block when painted. If rebuilt the engine is normally painted on the engine stand where it can be rolled over more easily.

If the price is less than $ 250 it might be worth the trip. If more I would pass on it unless there was a lot more evidence that it was actually rebuilt.

About 15 years ago I purchased a '31 engine, transmission, rear end, front axle, brake rods, etc. from a car that was being rodded. I was told that the engine was rebuilt by the previous owner who was a professional mechanic. I paid $ 150 and brought it all home. Needing a temporary engine (while I rebuilt the original) I decided to see if the engine would run. Added oil (it was without any oil when I got it), set it on the garage floor (yes sitting on the pan) with a few pieces of wood to stabilize it, put on an exhaust pipe and muffler, added carb. generator, starter. Hooked up coil (with alligator clips), put a hose in a gas can and cranked it over. It started and ran without any major noises but had zero oil pressure. Shut it down and put on the engine stand. When I removed the oil pan I found: two to three handfuls of leaves, #2 rod only had one bolt, three dippers were not on the rods but were found in the leaves, there was not evidence of any recent work (unless you count taking off the dippers and removing rod bolts). Amazingly the crank was round, replaced two rods and ran it for many years. Oh yes, it had ~0.008" wear in the cylinders. Since it was only going to be temporary I elected to just replace the piston rings and put it back together (a friend advised to bore it and rebuild properly but I didn't do it). Well it lasted many years and when first started didn't make too much noise but when warm had enough piston slap that most people thought it was immediately coming apart.

I have other stories of "rebuilt" engines, one by a certified aircraft mechanic that worked for a major airline. It actually had some work done to it but the center main pounded so loudly you could hear it as soon as the engine started. Does that make you feel comfortable riding those jet planes? I just hoped he specialized in lavatories.

I couldn't find the numbers for 1931, but on the 1950 or so they are stamped on a flat area behind the distributor(this code gives the size, date and production number) and I think the casting numbers are on that same side of the block (date the block was cast). Someone more knowledgeable with this year engine could give you the numbers to look for.

If you get receipts don't hesitate to call the rebuilder and ask questions or ask for references and do check them out. Only by removing the pan and dropping the bearing caps will you know the condition of the main components-crank and bearings. Rebabbiting and line boring an engine is probably the most costly part of rebuilding. The center main is probably the most important to inspect but I would want to see all three.Like others above I have purchased "rebuilt" engines only to find "thumper" living inside. Things to look for on receipts should include machine work in addition to new parts.Such as pressure cleaning, magnafluxing, resurfacing, boring or other repairs to both the cyl head and block. If someone has simply cleaned it up, put in new rings, ground the valves and adjusted the bearing shims then the engine is "repaired" but not rebuilt.

I agree with Dippy Chippy on the "rebuilt" engine issue. I have had similar experiences with so called "rebuilt" engines as well. One was a 1931 engine. Against my advice, a friend of mine sent his engine to the Los Angeles area from Oregon to a well known company (hum...we talk about their pistons here on Chevy Chatter II all the time) to be "rebuilt".

My friend paid big bucks to have this engine rebuilt and when he got the engine back (he drove all the way to the Los Angeles area to pick it up), it was as dirty and greasy as when he sent it down for a rebuild. He asked me to come over and check it out. Well...to make a long story short, the valves were at an angle in the valve guides, the valves were only ground on one side, the cylinders had been bored to .060" over and the bore was still out of round. Both the intake and exhaust manifolds were plugged solid with a mouse nest and when the oil pan was removed a beer can fell out! So, there is a "rebuilt" engine for you.

Brandon, after looking at the photos and considering that you have to drive 1,100 miles round trip to get the engine, you might want to pass on it.

With the paint job on the engine, the engine will likely not have been hot tanked and will be a botched repair job and not a rebuild. Any respectable engine rebuilder would have taken more time to paint it in a descent manner if taking the time to rebuild it. I have purchase an engine with a similar paint job and it had new pistons and a new cam and oval rod journals and sludge in every crevis. It lasted 500 miles before making the prettiest silver mettallic lubricant and the most melodious hammering I have ever heard. It was a 350 SB and it was delivered to me at work for $300, that was $250 more than it was worth.

If you have another reason to go to Charleston, SC and some time to kill I would do it. But I wouldn't want to pay over a $150 to $200 for it even then, unless all inspections reveal all babbitting and journals are done in a top notch manner (See ugly paint comment above)not likely!

Well, I'm kinda of nervous about it now, which I guess is a good thing because it probably means I'm more realistic about it. My fiance and I had already called the guy and made plans to take the trip this weekend (it's a 3 day weekend for us because of a holiday for teachers) and my parents are both going to go, so the trip is already somewhat turned into a family trip.
If we're already going to go there as it was mentioned, it seems I would at least have enough parts there to get my money back if the engine turns out to be junk.
I now have a pretty good idea of what to look for. I'm definitely going to make sure I take the valve cover off and the pan and take a look.
Thanks for the help everyone.

Brandon

As long as you are going into the potential transaction with your eyes wide open and know what you are looking for and looking at, everything will turn out okay. It is when you let emotions and anticipation rule that you likely will make a mistake.

Drove 900 miles round trip to pick up a motor for my '31 just to have an extra one for my car. He was hot rodding it out so I got a lot of exta parts also. Going to drop the pan this winter and take a compression test and go from there. Got everything pretty reasonable. The best part is I took my 2 grandsons along, 13 & 16 at the time, and we had a ball. Oh yes, they are chevy car nuts.

Will it hurt the engine haul it on it's side, lying on the spark plug side, or does it have to be sitting on the oil pan?

Brandon

I no it's late but if you could build a frame out of 2x8 that could run along the pan bolts and the two cross members to support the front and back with enough sticking out to prevent the engine from tipping over would be best.

Just chain it down on that old tire the way it sits. If you're going to get it anyway and it is not as advertised, it could still be a good candidate for you to rebuild yourself(or someone you know). Just adjust your $ offer accordingly. Worst case you have had a nice weekend with the family.

Well, we were previously attempting to find a way to haul the engine in the back of a truck with a tonneau cover, but we found a small trailer so I should just be able to chain it down on a tire.

At this point, I think a weekend with the family is what I'm expecting, and if a usable engine comes out of the deal, then extra win for me.

Enjoy the snow in Charleston. Hopefully it will have melted before you get there and you don't have much on the way. Just remember some of those Carolinians might be packing so don't tick them off too much. Kinda like pettun a dog. Put your hand out slowly and if they lunge at it put it quickly behind you. A bite back there is much less tragic than elsewhere.

Maybe I'll just carry a bunch of steaks with me and if they try to growl at me I'll throw them one and sneak past. I'll have to go through Atlanta because the route through Knoxville is closed due to the landslide damage.

We Carolina mountain boys caused the landslide and road closure to stop you Tennessee guys from running moonshine through our territory!

Have a good trip and good luck with the engine!

All the Best, Chip

If you guys would cut back on "grandpa's cough syrup" we wouldn't have to bring all that shine down to ya. hehe

This is the worst time to need to get to Charleston. Cars wrecked everywhere. Only made it to Atlanta, after sitting on the internet, then hours of driving at 25-35 miles per hour. Hopefully a better day tomorrow.

Brandon, for what that engine was going for, you have nothing to worry about. You sometimes take a chance in life, but that's what living is all about.... If you're ultra conservative, then fork out 5k and just rebuild your original motor. Of course, nobody wants to hear that answer.