If you have never seen the wooden framework of your '31 Coach, without it's metal skin, here it is in all its glory. Hard to believe the boys at Fisher built over a quarter of a million of these babies.

This wood restoration has been a real adventure, and I am happy to say that this last weekend we were able to successfully install the metal body panels, and everything fit perfectly! It took us about seven hours to get it all fitted, but it was a very satisfying evolution. My hat's off to K.C. Wood for their incredibly high-quality, accurate wood components.

Now all I have to do is drive a few hundred nails and hang the doors...lol...well there are a few more things to do than that, but you get the picture.

If any of you guys are contemplating a similiar evolution, and I can help in any way, please don't hesitate to ask.

Don! Please send me K.C. Wood`s contact number! I`m going to have to do this to a 33 Master 4 dr.

Here is the URL to their website, which is currently being upgraded: K.C. Wood

The owner, Mr. Bill Cartwright, can be reached at 540-789-8264. His rule of thumb is "...if you have to create more than a handful of shavings during the assembly process, then we haven't done our job."

I can testify to the fact that his rule of thumb is right on. He is also incredibly knowledgeable and will help you with any questions you might have during the assembly process.

I'v heard about the wood on the older Chevs, but as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words!! Thanks for sharing.

I got my wood from K C WOOD. I was very pleased.

I am just beginning the instillation of all of the wood on a 32 coupe.
I may need to ask some questions.

Fire away Paul...will send you my phone number...my email address is posted here in my contact info.

Hi Don,
Glad your wood turned out great. I got mine from another person who came well recommended. I think that he must have had a few off days because very few pieces of mine fit correctly and it has taken me several months to get the panels to fit correctly. Yours looks great and I know it really looks good with the metalwork back on.

Hey 1930SportCoupe,

I don't know where this (good-old-boy) "KC" learnt about this Chevy wood but he do know his trade.

Mine looked like a piece of fine furniture. I got the frame rails (1931 spt. coupe) and all of the roof.

Hi Guys
I droped off my 26 1/2 ton by KC WOod in June so he could repro all my wood for me and so that he could make a set of patterns for himself. He took wood apart to make a set of patterns, because this one he did not have. He has a neat little shop tucked into the Blue ridge mountains of VA. and does most of the work with hand tool. He realy went to school for wood carving. I will be going down first week of Sept. to pick my truck up. I actualy only brought him the frame with wood on and front cowl. Drive train and runnig gear I took out so I could work on it while he had the rest.

John and Woodbutcher are right-on when they talk about the fit, and how Bill goes about obtaining it. When we did my '31 Coach I sent the lock pillars, both side-roof rails, the rear roof rail, the rear belt rail, and many other pieces to Bill as patterns. When I installed the lock pillar covers there was absolutely no adjustment required. When you look at the complexity of this piece, you understand how accurate it has to be in order to fit. You also realize what a nightmare it would be to adjust a poor one.

Here is a pic of the body installed on the framework. When you take into account that the first pic I posted was taken only two weekends ago, that speaks volumes.

Hey Don,

1. What paint did you use on the wood?
2. Do you use wood screws to attach the panels to the wood?

Thanks for the great picture!

BigBob...

Hi BigBob,

Thanks for the compliments.

1. The original wood appeared to be painted with a thin coat of black laquer. Time had turned it to a dirty shade of brown, but when the body panels were removed we were quite sure it was originally black. Modern automotive paints sometimes react strangely to being applied to wood, so laquer is what my painter recommended and I had good results with it.

2. The body panels were originally attached to the wooden sub-structure with body nails. When I disassembled the body I found three different types of nails that were used. The vast majority were 3/4 inch steel nails that were used around the periphery of the body panels. The side roof rail cover panels are nailed on the inside radius to the crown roof rails, at about 3 inch intervals. They are also used around the rear window opening, along the bottom edge of the cowl and rear quarter lower panels, up and down the hinge and lock pillars, and for most of the nailing tabs on the inside of the body panels. Where the quarter belt bars meet the body, a smaller 1/2 inch steel nailed is used, as the cross section of these pieces are fairly thin. Over the top of the door openings the guys from Fisher used a 1/2 inch decorative round headed nail. When I reassembled the body I used stainless steel body nails that closely matched the originals. For building the wood sub-structure I used stainless steel carriage and step bolts, and stainless steel straight slotted screws. Even though they cannot be seen once the interior is installed, I was not about to use any phillips head screws, or fasteners that did not have the right appearance.

The large number of nails used in the body structure is one of the things many restorers complain about, as they frequently find that they have to drill pilot holes, as Ash is a very hard wood to nail. I found that I had to drill very few pilot holes; I just used the old trick of dulling the nail heads slighty on a metal surface. For some reason this keeps the wood from splitting. If I had to drill a pilot hole I just cut the head off of a one inch nail of identical diameter, stuck it in my electric drill, and used it as a "drill bit".

Hope this helps.

Thanks a million, Don!

I would never have guessed that nails hold your 31 Coach together.

I'm really Looking forward to more pictures as you progress.

Hey Guys,
Thanks for all of the kind words!

Don,
That photo of the wood frame looks great, and I can't wait to get it on the KC Wood web page. I really enjoyed working on your '31 Coach restoration with you; I got some good feedback and learned some really valuable info! Plus, you were able to add to my collection of wood part patterns. All in all, you were an exceptional customer and I look forward to our continued working relationship. I'm still trying to get a handle on this internet/webpage/computer thing and I appreciate your help and imput and content ideas for our web page. Talk to you soon.

Woodbutcher!
I didn't know that I'd run in to you here. Your truck wood is looking great. Most of it is finished except for the tricky stuff around the doors and windows. I think you'll like it. See you in September, I'll have the beer this time!

Mr. G in Atlanta,
I'm glad our parts worked out for you. I didn't hear back from you so I had to assume that you were happy with them. Before starting KC Wood 15 years ago I spent years in the furniture industry in both management and production so your comment that our parts look like "fine furniture" brings a warm glow to me. Thanks! Bill Cartwright/KC Wood

Hi Bill,

Here is another shot of your workmanship...really hated to paint it:

Hi Bill,
I had talked with you about doing my wood but you were covered up. By the time I got my wood from the "other guy", I would have received yours. What pics I see of your work look great. It's too late to go back now. My door roof rails had the holes for the door pillars made wrong. So this made the whole top sheet metal not fit along with the roof slats and all the wood in the top. I said numerous cuss words every day for months.

Glad everyone elses wood came out great and the pics look great also.

Hi 1930,
Sorry to hear about the problems you had with the fit. When I first realized I had to replace the wood in my '31, I had many a sleepless night trying to decide what to do, where to find the wood, etc. That is the primary reason I started this thread, as I wanted to have a place for individuals who were facing a similiar task to go to get information, exchange ideas, etc.

As you already know this can be a very daunting task, even if the wooden components are very high quality. It also takes patience and requires a good working knowledge of the construction techniques required to build the wooden framework, without the elaborate jigs that were used by the factory; you get all of that, and more, from Bill Cartwright.

When I posted here several months ago on this subject, your words of encouragement helped me to decide to go ahead with the work, and I really thank you for that. I also exchanged quite a few ideas on the subject with JunkYardDog, who really helped me make some of the hard decisions to just "bite the bullet" and do it right.

If I can pass that favor along to just one other VCCA member facing a similiar task, then maybe it's less sleepless nights for them, and another vintage Chevy get's saved from the hot rodders torch. In any case it's a win .

Hey Bill glad to see you come on board. There is many a discusion on wood. Your expertize will always be welcome here. Look back through the threads and you will find much.
John

Don,
Thanks for the reply. I am glad that went ahead and did your car. I am also glad that you got, from what I can tell, the best wood. I feel the same as you. I had many people want me to hotrod this car. I just couldn't see it. It has been in my family since new and I want it to look like it did when it was first bought.

If I can help you or anyone or at least give my experiences so far, please feel free to email me.

See the USA in your Chevrolet!!

After reading this thread. when the day comes that i replace the wood in my 31 4dr special sedan. i am going to KC.

Hello 1930 Sport Coupe
It sounds like you had a tough time with your restoration. I am glad you stuck with it and were able to make it all work out. Especially since the car has been in your family for so long. Maybe if you ever do another old Chevy restoration we can help make it a more pleasant experience.
I noticed that you hail from Alabama. I was born in Mobile and brought up in the little town of Grand Bay just inland a little from Mobile Bay on the Gulf of Mexico. Some of my customers say they detect a southern accent but I sound normal to me. Till next time, Bill

Thought I would post these here to assist restorers with correct wood component terminology. They are taken from the original 1926-1931 Fisher Body Service Manual, which is available as a reprint from the folks at Crank'en Hope (tel: 412-459-8853).

I highly recommend it to you.

bump for Grego

How can you tell that your metal will fit your wood without hanging it as you go?I've been trying to install a wood kit in my Coupe for about 12 years and give up many times.I'm back at it again so any advise would be appreciated.

Just to ad another method I too am replacing virtually all the wood in my 1929 Imperial Landau. Started as a small deal, then two days later the body was off, and now I am remaking everything, accept the rear top body rail, no kit. Take the word of others this is no small task with lots of odd angel cuts and router work. A kit would be the best / maybe only way to go.
Luckily most of my body wood was present, so duplication is going ok. However, I had no seats. This summer I was able to get a front seat, with enough wood to piece together the sides, back and bottom. I was also given enough of the rear bottom seat to duplicate what I need. I am now stuck with whatever I need for the back (Sides also if the are any side pieces)portion of the rear seat. I would appreciate measurements if you have them, and I picture is worth 10 cuts. (Some pieces I have cut were too short even when I cut them twice).
Also, I have found front seat springs, bottom and back, but cannot find any rear seat springs. Hemming sent me to Snyder. Both suppliers were understanding, but unable to help. Your assistance with this challenge will be a great help.

"A kit would be the best / maybe only way to go."

Amen to that! I completely replaced all of the wood in my 1930 Sport Coupe with a kit from Auto Wood Restoration, and the kit was fabulous! I couldn't purchase the wood and needed equipment to make the wood for the price that I paid for the kit. And, the kit was so nice it was a shame to cover up with wood with the metal panels! A quality wood kit is the only way to go.

I agree completely with what JunkYardDog says; a kit is the best option for success. The way the original was constructed makes it very, very difficult to "hang the body panels as you go".

The wooden framework of the body was contructed as a whole, in full body jigs, just like you see it in my pictures above. The body panels were then "snapped onto it". Once we got the wooden structure completed we were able to hang the body panels in two weekends of work. I did not have the jigs, but I had a quality kit from K.C Wood, and I had my original framework to use as a measurement / construction technique guide. I also had Bill Cartwright's (K.C Wood's owner and operator) expertise to draw on when I needed it.

31Chevylover'nSC,
Thanks for the pictures and information. I got mine from Auto Wood Restoration and the kit is going up great. Your pictures and your's and everybody elses in put will help me greatly. Did you use any glue on yours as I heard you should. Thanks again.
jerrygolf

Hi Bill,
I talked with you about my wood some time ago. I believe that the people in VA have converted you over. You sounded more like your neck of the woods now. I live in the upper part of Alabama but I travel to Mobile on vacations alot. I still need a couple of pieces of wood and am getting them from you. If I plan on doing another one, I am getting my wood from you. Take care.
Dennis

Hi Jerry, sorry it took me awhile to get back to you. I used Tightbond yellow wood glue when I assembled my body framework. It was recommended by KC Wood, and worked very well.

The key is to know when to glue. When I assembled my kit, I used the chassis as a jig, laid the bottom sills on it, ran the body bolts home, checked the fit and all my measurements from the original framework, then I glued and clamped. Taking X-measurements from corner-to-corner of the side sills is also a good way to make sure everything is square.

After the side sills and kick-ups were done I then installed the lock and hinge pillars. The proper location of these, both front-to-rear, and making sure they are installed at the correct height is critical to a proper fit. Before I glued them in place, I installed and test fitted the windshield header assembly and the side-roof rails, just to make sure everything lined-up correctly. I then backed-out the screws and glued 'em up.

When I built the roof I just glued things up as I proceeded through the assembly process; just make sure you get everything square and matched-up to the original.

I did not glue the rear roof bows; rear window assembly; or install the locking pins into the side roof rails, at the top of the hinge pillars and the rear quarter pillars, until I had installed the metal body panels and was sure everything fit.

If you need any help, please do not hesitate to ask.

Thanks much Don. I'm working on the motor now so will be a little while before I get back to the wood but will keep you in mind. I know this will make it so much easier. Thanks,
Jerry

Thanks so much to all who are involved in this chat. I just bought my 31 5 window coupe, which came with a new wood kit. Until I read your comments and looked at your pictures, I was working on a big jigsaw puzzle, but now I understand where nearly every piece of wood goes. I wish there had been resources like this during my previous restoration projects!

Glad to hear this helped 6wheel. The wood restoration part of this hobby can be challenging, but I found it to be one of the most rewarding parts of the hobby.

I think the biggest revelation for me was that the Fisher Body guys constructed the wooden framework 1st and then installed the metal body panels onto the completed framework. Once I knew that, it all started to make sense.

One thing I haven't discussed up to this point is the "anti-squeak" friction tape that was installed by Fisher, between all of the wooden components and the black metal reinforcing brackets, and the windshield header. The original stuff looked very much like the old, black, cloth electricians tape. I used a self-adhesive product sold by Hampton Coach that they call "mole-skin". I highly recommend it to you.

If any of you guys have any questions, or need any help with this part of your resto, please do not hesitate to ask.

30 lb roofing felt is also a good substitute for the original insulator. In addition to between the wood and the metal brackets and supports it is found between the headlight bar and fender. Never found any under the cowl or taillight stand and sheet metal. The material was used to prevent squeeeeeks.

Thanks for the additional info Chipper, and I agree, there was no friction tape on my '31 Coach where the cowl panel or rear body panels contacted the wooden sub-structure.

Don,
I hope that I did not imply that fabric isolation pads were used between all wood and metal contact points. I have only found it between metal brackets and other major contact points and the wood. It sure would not hurt add more than was originally installed. Sound deadening on the major sheet metal panels and doors will also give a much quieter body. If any is used make sure that it does not absorb or trap water as that will hasten rusting.

Chipper,I saw a rubber insolator pad on the Filling Station website that fits between the headlight bar and fenders.Is a rubber pad correct for a '30 Coupe? And to stay on subject of this post my wood/metal is coming together after a 12 year break.Some problems years ago have been overcome thanks to all the VCCA chat gang.THANKS ALL!!!! Stan

Hi Stan,
Glad to hear that all is going well on your wood restoration. If you need anything else, please don't hesitate to ask .

Post some pics when you get a chance. I will post some of mine as soon as the painter get's the last of the bodywork done, and has her in primer.

Gentlemen, Moderator
That doesn’t mean the Moderator isn’t a gentleman, but I need his permission too
Would you mind if I use the info and pictures in this tread for an info sheet for the Stovebolt. This is the first time I have seen a complete body in wood. I think that Bill did an exceptional good job and I would like to recommend him in the Stovebolt. If it is published in the Stovebolt is not up to me, but I would like to keep the info for my self too. Restoring a 1926 truck, I might need some wooden parts to finish.

Thank you for your time

Richard

"I saw a rubber insolator pad on the Filling Station website that fits between the headlight bar and fenders.Is a rubber pad correct for a '30 Coupe?"

No! Not those rubber pads since they have rolled edges. The rubber pads that the Filling Station sells are a sales "gimmick" made by I&I Reproduction to make more sales. Several items made by I&I are not original equipment such as the gearshift lever rubber boots and the emergency brake lever rubber boots. These items were never used on the 1930 Chevrolets!

However, what some dudes are doing is to purchase these rubber headlight bar pads and once they are installed the rolled edges of the pads are carefully cut off with a knife so that the remaining pad cannot be seen.

Hi Chevtruck1926,

I am not a moderator, but I put the wood framework in the photos together, and the photos are mine, so you definitely have my permission to use them for your info sheet for the Stovebolt.

As for Bill, he does not check here often, as he is very busy making wood, so I just called and left him a message letting him know you are trying to contact him on this request.

The rest I leave to the gentleman moderators

Thank you Don,
Very nice, I saw those pictures, read the remarks and I thought you should copy that, by the time you're doing Chev26's wooden parts, it will be gone. I had already contacted Bill before I read this topic and was planning to have him do my wood. But after reading this he has to. My cab, a Brantford, isn't in his documents yet, that's why I'm measuring every splinter and copying that to AutoCAD to make production drawings, but with so much wood gone, it’s tough to be sure about it, but now these picture will be a nice guide line to finish the drawings and that added with Bill’s experience should give me (in 5 years or so) my finishing woodwork. My idea of doing it myself is now completely gone.
And while collecting woodwork data, I thought I might as well write it down properly and make it in an info file for other builders.
Thanks for the help and good luck with your ’31 coach; so far it looks pretty good.

Thanks,


Richard

Don,I'll try to post a picture soon.My Coupe project isn't looking very good right now.I started 20 years ago and everything I finish years ago needs alittle cleaning but it still runs sweet!This is a father/son project and we have stopped at started many times but right now we are coming along pretty good.We have the cowl,windsheild,quaters all nailed in place.We are fitting doors,trunk,and trim right now so hopefully it will all come together soon!And Thanks JunkYardDog for the information on the rubber pad.

Glad to hear things are moving along Oniz, I look forward to seeing the results. Here is a pic of my '31 ready to head off to the painters...will update in a few weeks

When I was rebuilding my 31 coupe wood frame I was also looking for the material that went under the brackets. I called Hampton Coach to see if they had anything but all of their products were to thick. They referred me to a guy that restores Model A's. When I talked to him also said that it was just for squeaks. He told me to just use a heavy waterproof canvas material. I went to a local awning shop a got a piece that was left over from one of their jobs. I think that I am going to try it also under my headlight bar and cowl lights. Hope this might help.

You can buy the rubber pads made for the headlight bars and also the pads made for the cowl lights for 1931 and 1932 cars. Call I&I Reproductions In Paramount California. Their phone number Is 562-531-8117.

The rubber pads with the rolled edges for the headlight bars and the cowl lights are not stock . These items are something dreamed up by I&I to make a buck. Points should be deducted for cars using these unless the rolled edges are trimmed off so that the pads cannot be seen.

My 1930 coupe had all of the original material still in place under the reinforcement brackets and the material found was leatherette. I had some new leatherette in stock and I cut pieces to match the original pieces and installed them under the reinforcement brackets. This material worked great!

I have talked to a couple of guys that cut the rolled edges off and they said the rubber works great. I myself put nothing under my cowl lights and headlight bars and have had no problem.

Right, you have to cut the rolled edges off of the rubber pads, otherwise it is a dead giveaway that the owner of the car fell for the "Made In Taiwan" make-a-quick-buck parts sold by I&I Reproduction. For a driver it probably doesn't matter, but for judging purposes those rubber pads with the rolled edges are a no-no unless the rolled edges are trimmed off.

What I don't understand is why you people don't use 30# roofing felt. It is the closest that I know of to the original material and dirt cheap. Check with a roofer in your area they should have a small piece that is scrap.

Chipper is right the material can be gotten free; stop by any job site where they are laying felt and if you ask they will let you have all of the cut offs they toss off of the roof.

P.S. There are different grades of felt, some roofers don't use 30#.

If roofing felt was the original stuff on my '30 coupe I would have used it. However, as mentioned, the material found between the reinforcing brackets and the wood was leatherette, a fine grained leatherette at that. This stuff was also used in the roof between the corner metal reinforcing brackets and the wood as well. Also, found it covering the rumble seat latch on the upper panel below the rear window too. So.....if ya wanna go back original ya use the original factory stuff found....which, in this case was leatherette.

Roofing felt will work just fine too, and it would be perfect for the job. However, the leatherette I found that was used from the factory (Kansas City by the way) is way tougher stuff than 30 pound roofing felt.

It sounds like, That If you can!t see It, Any thing can be used If It Is hidden, Now I wonder If I can find original 1932 air for my tires, Or do I just use todays air and not worry about losing points when the car Is judged.

Hey Donald! Knowing you.....if you could find the original stale 1932 air for your tires you would use it! However, it is interesting to note that some dudes that have dual sidemounts on their cars and have their cars judged, don't even have air in those tires and no points are deducted. So.....you should be safe.

Hey Skipper. I have alot of hot air In my tires all the time.

The material that I have found on several '31 Chevys is more like roofing felt than leatherette. It was more like a woven fabric impregnated with tar to make it waterproof. I believe that scrap material from upholstery, tops and fabrics from non-automotive applications was also used. I am sure there were specifications and many suppliers so the fabric used in any car and from year to year varied. I have never found rubber isolators in the body or under bolt on parts. Engine and transmission mounts however used rubber beginning in '32.

FYI, the original leatherette was more like oil cloth than modern vinyl. Vinyl was not developed until the 40s and not used in any large volume until the 50s.

Absolutely! Various scraps of material were used that were available and the type of material used also probably varied from factory to factory. The material used on my '30 coupe was definitely the old leatherette material. It was woven, and it had sort of a beige (or off white) colored backing with a black leatherette grained front. Looked exactly like the 1930 top insert material but finer grained.

Just FYI if anyone is interested in oilcloth this site has woodgrain oilcloth (scroll down to the bottom of the page that boots up for woodgrain) at a low cost, in their words:

"The oilcloth is 47" wide. It costs $6.99 per yard (except for medallion which is 54" wide and $7.69 per yard) . Fabric is sold by the running yard. If you purchase one yard of oilcloth you will be sent a piece that is 36" by 47". Fabric is sold in 1/4 yard increments, with a 1/2 yard minimum per fabric."

Also you can request samples:

"For swatch requests, please use our Request Form."

http://www.mendels.com/fabrics_oilcloth.html

There are other sites for oilcloth here:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=oilcloth&spell=1

Don't know if this product could be used or not I will let the experts check it out and give their opinions.

Chevtruck1926, Bill sent me an email last night, and he and I have no problem with using the info in this thread for the Stovebolt...all you need now is for the moderator to give you the OK.

Perfect, thanks for all the trouble Don. And keep us posted how '31 is doing please.

Richard

Will do buddy! If the painter keeps to his schedule, I should have her back, painted and ready for re-assembly, before Christmas.

If all goes well I might even have her back on the road by spring .

A prospective region member has a 26 4dr sedan. He brought in to the meeting a door jamb (#6 in the illustration of the 7-passenger sedan above) covered with metal except for a thin area on one side. He wants to know how to get the wood "out". I assume that you spread the sheet metal. Any way to do it without bending the metal?

Thanks,

Jim

The '26 is considerably older than my '31, so I can not give you a solid answer without actually looking at the parts in question, but here is what I learned when I worked on the '31.

When the bodies were originally built, the entire wooden sub-structure of the body was completed first, and then the metal body panels were installed over it.

The hinge and lock pillars are glued and screwed to the lower side sills, from the outside, with two large wood screws, so the screw heads are not accessible once the metal body panel is installed.

The metal body panels are actually flanged and nailed onto the wooden sub-structure, so in order to remove the lock pillar you have to gain access to the screws by either removing the lock pillar covers and un-nailing the body panels from the lock pillar, or you would actually have to cut through the body panel.

Probably the best thing to do here is to get us a photo of the parts in question, so we can see what we are up against, and then we can contact Bill Cartwright at K.C. Wood to see what's the best way to tackle this.

Please contact me via email and let's discuss further.

Hey Don,
I just met you at Bill Fisk's Machine Shop in Charleston. Thanks for introducing me to VCCA. Being the new guy on the block it will take me awhile to figure out how to post pictures. As soon as I do I'll post some pictures of my 58 GMC panel & 56 GMC truck. Don you really should post some pictures of 31's 6 cylinder , I was blown away when I saw it at Bill's shop. Later! Deuter412

Hi Dueter,

It was great to meet you today at Bill's, and welcome to the VCCA forums. As for the posting the pics, they are already here in: Wood Repair Support Group